12 yr old son believes Adam and Eve got a raw deal

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Thank you! He doesn’t look at atheistic websites. I homeschool him but we don’t want to over shelter him. He gets some stuff from township soccer (public school friends) and he is just inquisitive, very very inquisitive!
I’m wondering if given this information you want to push him away from a fixation on scripture that he can’t deal with and into things that are more age-appropriate. Teach him to code or draw or whatever.
 
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It sounds like your son’s problem is a rejection of authority. I think he feels that the punishment for eating an apple is disproportionate to the sins of Adam and Eve. (Or to the sin of the serpent who enticed the sins.)

God doesn’t rationalize degrees of evil of sins like humans do. To God, a venial sin is a sin is a sin. Or the same with a mortal sin. 12 is a little young to understand this. On its face, eating an apple in today’s world is not a major transgression. (This is true even if the apple belongs to another person.)

However, God does not deal in distinctions. Every sin is turning your back on God.

In the age of entitlement, it is hard for children to understand that a minor transgression is actually doing something wrong.

Perhaps if you were more consistent with your punishment, he would have greater understanding. There should not be as much rationalizing away punishment for degrees of disobedience.
 
This came from a reading at mass, he pays attention to the readings and sometimes he needs clarification about them. Scripture is part of our faith, so it hears it from many sources Mass, EWTN, catholic youth group, or what is covered in homeschooling.
 
This came from a reading at mass, he pays attention to the readings and sometimes he needs clarification about them. Scripture is part of our faith, so it hears it from many sources Mass, EWTN, catholic youth group, or what is covered in homeschooling.
Which is my precisely my point.

He is living in a world where he has too much scripture and it’s not healthy for his mind. He’s getting so much it’s causing his young brain to become obsessed in an unhealthy way. This is likely due to his autism.

It’s great that he gets so much (name removed by moderator)ut but he’s feeling angry and showing it.

When your son was young did he ever encounter a toy that he was not old enough for? One of my little ones loved building things. While she could understand and design knex things at around 2 if an adult sat and put it together according to her whims she would get mad because she could not do it. We gave her tinker toys and she didn’t get frustrated with them. It didn’t matter how good Knex were—she was not ready to deal with them

Scripture is great. Living Catholic is wonderful, but your son needs time and maturity to deal with all of the (name removed by moderator)ut he’s getting. It’s too much for him.

Adam and Eve did get a “raw deal” in that God didn’t need them. God made them for one purpose. That’s all they had to do. They subverted what God wanted. God didn’t need to let them keep existing. Humanity is simply a creation.

You should try and answer his questions, you have some good information here. What I’m saying is going forward you should try and prevent these situations (atleast for the time being) where the limits in his capacity to understand drive him away from God.
 
I also think they got a bum deal. Two naive, innocent, ignorant, inexperienced, new humans were placed in the garden, complete with all they needed for a happy life. But wait, there’s more, along with all the good stuff a completely unnecessary tree of the knowledge of good and evil and a very intelligent, cunning and deceitful serpent. Now they were placed there by a no doubt mysterious being, completely incomprehensible to their immature minds. And told to enjoy all, but stay away from that bad tree. Now along comes the serpent, another no doubt mysterious being, completely incomprehensible to their immature minds who tells them it is OK to eat of the tree. What a conflict, who are you going to trust ?? The first being promises nothing but horrible things if they eat of the tree, the serpent promises nothing but good things. They both seem to know what they are talking about and they both seem to be in conflict with each other. By now, they are probably wondering why the tree was put there in the first place, a bad thing for one being, a good thing for the other. Normal humans tend to trust folks with a positive attitude like the serpent had. So no contest, eat of the tree.
 
Sadly, your son has been indoctrinated by hollowood spiritualism: “me, myself, and I” determine what is right.

He fully ignores that the Satan uses God’s Word to trip Eve (‘so you can’t eat from any of the trees’ and ‘surely, you will not die.’)

He also uses trickery as he puts in Eve’s mind and heart (as well as in your son’s) the idea that God is a control freak that does not want to share His Power.

He ignores the Plan of Creation: “Let us make man in Our Image and Likeness” and he ignores the difference in Creation itself “and God Breath His Spirit in man, and it became a Living Being–in the Image and Likeness of God.” (paraphrased)

Satan, the Ancient Serpent, who is the father of lies and a murderer from the Beginning ('one the First Day God said: “Let there Be Light.”), twisted Eve’s mind using partial truths and tempted her with what God had already decreed untouchable. But to soften her up he uses guile (what, you can’t eat from all those fruits? What, you can’t have whatever you want; sheesh what a control freak, go ahead just eat do it!) and convinces Eve that it is better to defy authority and have it your way than to obey Authority–basically, he causes Eve to switch her allegiance from the Creator, Who have Created her in His Image and Likeness, to the creature who has attempted against the Throne!

Satan’s wickedness is so vile that it reaches through time and geography to your son, a creature who aligns with the creature against the Creator of the Universe as he faults God for setting parameters and dispensing Justice.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Your son is asking great questions. His interpretation, at least in some respects, is a relatively accurate reflection of what the text actually says. As Catholics, we theologize the text and add theological concepts like original sin, the serpent being Satan, etc.

Read critically, the story says this:
God creates Adam and Eve to till and keep the earth. He gives them permission to eat from every tree in the garden except for the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or else they will die. The serpent does not deceive them. The serpent merely tells them what is apparently true: they will not die (they don’t unless we add a spiritual interpretation), and if they eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil they will become like gods. At the time of the writing, the characteristics of a god were twofold. First, gods lived forever (represented by the tree of life). Second, gods had special knowledge (represented by the tree of knowledge of good and evil). The God in the story is a jealous God, so since Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, God, in order to maintain his uniqueness, banished them from the garden to guard the tree of life from them in order to protect God’s uniqueness.

From this perspective, Adam and Eve did not necessarily get a raw deal since they were not tricked by the serpent even though Eve claims she was. Read critically, Eve is trying to pass the blame to the serpent, just as Adam tries to place the blame on Eve. However, the God in this story is a jealous God who is trying to preserve God’s uniqueness. The moral of the story, like most stories in the Old Testament, is this: humans are not gods, and when humans try to make themselves like gods, they suffer devastating consequences. It is important to note, however, that the tendency to protect God’s benevolence in these Old Testament stories often leads individuals to read more into the stories than what is really there. This story is not Greek, so the Greek concepts of God adopted later would not have been assumed by the author.

Lastly, it is important to note that I am not saying that the traditional Catholic interpretation is false. I am merely pointing out that the story, read critically, does not fully support the Catholic interpretation. One must read the story in light of Catholic doctrine in order to come to our doctrinal conclusions. Neither interpretation is false. Instead, the same story is just interpreted using different hermeneutics or with different hermeneutical keys.
 
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Is it any consolation that at least he’s interested in Scripture?
This sounds quite nice–but ‘feel good’ theology only gets us to side with the devil.

Have you not noticed that the statement is that Satan, the usurper of God’s Authority and Throne, is the source of man’s freedom?

…allow the tree to grow crooked and it will brake before it yields to standing straight!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Adam and Eve did get a raw deal, but not from God…
I fully concur!

Satan uses his knowledge, God’s Word, Eve’s innocence and thirst and desire to twist the reality of disobedience and rejection of God’s Authority into an attainable and empowering recreation: the creature can make itself into God!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Perhaps if you were more consistent with your punishment, he would have greater understanding. There should not be as much rationalizing away punishment for degrees of disobedience.
Autistic–children seldom connect correction with being wrong; further, most children are eager to “be part of” whatever so they are eager to accept their peers as the fountain of sound knowledge–and thanks to hollowood, they are quick to dispense with parental instruction/guidance as flawed and old fashion… I suspect a child with autism would be even more ready to engage in both.

Punishment is hardly an answer.

Rather, in my opinion, more exchange with as clear and as tangible explanations as possible.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
This came from a reading at mass, he pays attention to the readings and sometimes he needs clarification about them. Scripture is part of our faith, so it hears it from many sources Mass, EWTN, catholic youth group, or what is covered in homeschooling.
Which brings me to the parental units (yeah, I went there!); you must get more involved in your Faith; you must give your child an answer to your Hope with enough clear information that he is forced to ponder and weight against that to which he might be exposed outside the home. You must also Live your Faith so that he can understanding that it is not about empty gesture and posturing!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Perhaps if you were more consistent with your punishment, he would have greater understanding. There should not be as much rationalizing away punishment for degrees of disobedience.
That’s utter nonsense. The child is trying to understand a complicated piece of scripture that has been interpreted differently by the greatest minds in the world for millennia. You have no basis to say he does not understand punishment or authority simply because he interprets the complex story differently.
 
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Continue to teach him about personal responsibility. Once he can grasp that concept (a challenge for some people on the spectrum) he will be better able to grasp Adam and Eve.
 
So it was not enough that they could eat from whatever fruit was around, it was not enough that they had the run of the place, it was not enough that they were entrusted with a single responsibility?

You sound like those who believe that children should leave their “nest” asap–the second they feel that their parents are controlling them (no drugs (alcohol, cigarettes, and other recreational and meds), no sex, do your chores, do your homework, go to school to learn not to socialize, be responsible, obey your curfew, respect your parents, teachers, elders…)–even if they are just in their preteen; all the while the parents remaining responsible for their ill-behavior, their criminal trespass/exploits, their refusal to discipline themselves and obtain an education, their insistence in not contributing in the home, in society, for their own wellbeing and their financial security (getting a job)–and, to boot, having the responsibility to do their laundry, allow them to use their refrigerator and pantry as a free market, keep their room ready for whenever they want to came back/crash in, and allow them to bring their “friends” into that contractual obligation–and even accept it if they destroy the house/apartment throwing “parties” for their “friends.”

Yeah, what a deal!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
This sounds quite nice–but ‘feel good’ theology only gets us to side with the devil.

Have you not noticed that the statement is that Satan, the usurper of God’s Authority and Throne, is the source of man’s freedom?

…allow the tree to grow crooked and it will brake before it yields to standing straight!

Maran atha!

Angel
That has absolutely nothing to do with my question that you quoted.
 
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Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you stated that at least he was interested in Scriptures and that that would seem to matter more than what he gathered from thinking about the passage or what he is learning from friends.

While it is good to be interested in Scriptures, it cannot be said that it is sound to fault God, as a tyrant, and place Satan on a pedestal of spiritual liberty and freedom.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought you stated that at least he was interested in Scriptures and that that would seem to matter more than what he gathered from thinking about the passage or what he is learning from friends.
I did not say anything all about his interest mattering more than something else.
You must have been thinking of someone else, and quoted the wrong post in your reply, because it has nothing to do with what I said.
 
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