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mrsdizzyd
Guest
How familiar are you with Autism Spectrum Disorder? In particular, how familiar are you with the affects of ASD on cognitive processing and abstraction?
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How familiar are you with Autism Spectrum Disorder? In particular, how familiar are you with the affects of ASD on cognitive processing and abstraction?
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jcrichton
Guest
As stated in most threads, I’m quite pedestrian.
I did have a neighbor whose son has autism; he is able to function and reason quite well. Yet, there are limitations. From my exposure to them I came to know how a child with autism reacts to his/her environment.
Now, what has influenced the thinking? Only his parents and those around him can better understand.
My post was to the intent of (let him be as long as he is interested in Scriptures) the poster that implied that as long as Scriptures are in play, its all good (at least that’s what I took from the response).
It seems that you have some insight you want to share, could you expand on the Autism Spectrum Disorder and how maintaining the thought that God is bad and Satan good relates?
Maran atha!
Angel
I did have a neighbor whose son has autism; he is able to function and reason quite well. Yet, there are limitations. From my exposure to them I came to know how a child with autism reacts to his/her environment.
Now, what has influenced the thinking? Only his parents and those around him can better understand.
My post was to the intent of (let him be as long as he is interested in Scriptures) the poster that implied that as long as Scriptures are in play, its all good (at least that’s what I took from the response).
It seems that you have some insight you want to share, could you expand on the Autism Spectrum Disorder and how maintaining the thought that God is bad and Satan good relates?
Maran atha!
Angel
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Gorgias
Guest
I’m gonna go with “God, who was personally known to Adam and Eve as their creator and the creator of the universe” over “one created creature who says he knows better than God.”
You’ve set up your argument cleverly… but inaccurately.
Naive? No… they have experience: they’ve experienced God as creator. They have wisdom and judgment – they’re part of the preternatural gifts given to Adam and Eve. By all standards, they’re not naive.
Ignorant? No… God already told them, in no uncertain terms, “don’t eat from those trees!” Clearly, they have the knowledge necessary to make a good choice.
Immature? No… Adam showed sufficient maturity in recognizing that none of the animals was an appropriate ‘helpmate’, and recognized that Eve was, when she was brought before him.
So… good job attempting to stack the deck! But in doing so, you’ve completely mischaracterized the situation. Yes – you really can convince us of many things, but only if you successfully sell us on the assertion that the moon is made of green cheese. However, all of those arguments will be inaccurate… 'cause the situation just ain’t what you make it out to be.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I have seen it opined that “knowledge” in the passage means “experience of”, not “knowing the difference.”
Adam and Eve were aware that God “knew the difference” because he told them not to eat of the forbidden tree. Satan persuaded them that they could not “know the difference” without “experiencing” it. They did not know that God did not “experience” evil.
Satan is described as a serpent. Perhaps that was the form he took, and perhaps it was only somewhat similar to it, but far more impressive. I recall some saint saying that if we ever beheld an angel the way it truly is, we would be absolutely convinced it was God.
And so, here is this creature, perhaps seeming great in power and magnificence, telling them that they could not understand good and evil without experiencing both, and if they did, they would be “like God”.
It’s plausible. There are plenty of people, particularly young people, who become convinced by our society and people in it, that they don’t have “wisdom” without “experience” evil in some form.
And being on the autism spectrum doesn’t necessarily mean severely impaired. My wife has spent many years working with the disabled, including people with autism and she is absolutely persuaded that a particular priest in this diocese is on the spectrum. She gives her reasons, and I find it persuasive. Also, most engineers are somewhere on the spectrum and about 40% of physicians.
It doesn’t mean you can’t comprehend.
Adam and Eve were aware that God “knew the difference” because he told them not to eat of the forbidden tree. Satan persuaded them that they could not “know the difference” without “experiencing” it. They did not know that God did not “experience” evil.
Satan is described as a serpent. Perhaps that was the form he took, and perhaps it was only somewhat similar to it, but far more impressive. I recall some saint saying that if we ever beheld an angel the way it truly is, we would be absolutely convinced it was God.
And so, here is this creature, perhaps seeming great in power and magnificence, telling them that they could not understand good and evil without experiencing both, and if they did, they would be “like God”.
It’s plausible. There are plenty of people, particularly young people, who become convinced by our society and people in it, that they don’t have “wisdom” without “experience” evil in some form.
And being on the autism spectrum doesn’t necessarily mean severely impaired. My wife has spent many years working with the disabled, including people with autism and she is absolutely persuaded that a particular priest in this diocese is on the spectrum. She gives her reasons, and I find it persuasive. Also, most engineers are somewhere on the spectrum and about 40% of physicians.
It doesn’t mean you can’t comprehend.
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Gorgias
Guest
Actually, Satan doesn’t make an appearance in the story. If one wishes to take a figurative approach to the story, then he can make the claim that the serpent represents Satan. However, at that point, we need to interpret all the symbolic elements of the story.
So, if you want to claim ‘Satan’, then there’s a whole lot more that needs to be said about the narrative…
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Elf01
Guest
He is identified as Satan in Revelation 12.
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Seagull
Guest
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Have him study this painting !
Have him study this painting !
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neophyte
Guest
That’s silly. They knew the difference between eating and not eating the fruit, and they knew that they were to not eat it.
It’s like listening to some punk at school who tells you that you should mix two chemicals that your teacher told you not to because something bad will happen, and then blaming the teacher when your hand gets blown off.
@Happy2bcatholic1 your son thinks Adam and Eve got a raw deal . But what about us ?
Adam and Eve did wrong so we all have to suffer the consequences of their wrongdoing .
We are ill , we suffer , we die , and all because of Adam and Eve .
Say you do something criminal and you are brought before the judge and found guilty . Then the judge sentences you to 10 months in prison , and he also sentences your son to 10 months in prison simply because you are his mum .
Now that comes across as a raw deal .
It’s puzzling .
Adam and Eve did wrong so we all have to suffer the consequences of their wrongdoing .
We are ill , we suffer , we die , and all because of Adam and Eve .
Say you do something criminal and you are brought before the judge and found guilty . Then the judge sentences you to 10 months in prison , and he also sentences your son to 10 months in prison simply because you are his mum .
Now that comes across as a raw deal .
It’s puzzling .
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Gorgias
Guest
In the context of that book? Yes. But, then again, Revelation is in the genre of apocalyptic, which makes use of many symbols and hidden meanings.
In the context of Genesis 3, however, you have to make a decision about whether you’re treating it literally or not. (The Church treats is as figurative language, btw.)
So, if @clarkgamble wants to analyze the text, it would seem that he needs to stake his claim and stick with it: is this text to be understood literally or figuratively? Only then can he decide what he’s going to complain about, in the text…
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jcrichton
Guest
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Gorgias
Guest
I’ve already refuted that assertion.
Your last three quotes don’t mention a serpent.
Your first one is itself in the genre of apocalyptic, which uses symbols. Moreover, it does not reference Genesis.
Therefore, your claim doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.
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jcrichton
Guest
Actually, that’s exactly what happens–the mom is not there for the son; hence, the son is also imprisoned for the entire separation period.
Now, who is the actual agent that caused the raw deal, the judge who passed sentence or the mom who perpetrated the crime?
Maran atha!
Angel
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jcrichton
Guest
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jcrichton
Guest
So we are to understand Scriptures as individual writings with no connection or bearing on anything but the actual passage that is being read at the moment–like a pseudo romantic novel?
Maran atha!
Angel
Maran atha!
Angel
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angel12
Guest
No one has said that. Except you. Again, deliberately mis-stating what someone said.
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jcrichton
Guest
Can you ran it by me:
How do we not find “original” sin?
How does the “original sin” not translate to all of humanity suffer the consequences?
How does the Battle depicted in Genesis 3:15 and the Battle depicted in Apocalypse 12 become non-essential symbolism that are not tie together in any form?
Why does Jesus reference Satan as the father of lies and murderous from the Beginning and why does He makes it a point to place him (Satan) in Heaven and falling as lighting?
What you call deliberate mis-stating I call forcing to review.
We cannot operate in the dark or in a vacuum when it comes to Scriptures… the Bible is not a compilation of stories and prophecies that have multiple narratives which are up for grabs. It is the Word of God: One Narrative: God’s Salvific Plan.
Maran atha!
Angel
- not literal
- not Satan
- do not connect Scriptures
- everything is symbolic
How do we not find “original” sin?
How does the “original sin” not translate to all of humanity suffer the consequences?
How does the Battle depicted in Genesis 3:15 and the Battle depicted in Apocalypse 12 become non-essential symbolism that are not tie together in any form?
Why does Jesus reference Satan as the father of lies and murderous from the Beginning and why does He makes it a point to place him (Satan) in Heaven and falling as lighting?
What you call deliberate mis-stating I call forcing to review.
We cannot operate in the dark or in a vacuum when it comes to Scriptures… the Bible is not a compilation of stories and prophecies that have multiple narratives which are up for grabs. It is the Word of God: One Narrative: God’s Salvific Plan.
Maran atha!
Angel
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Gorgias
Guest
Are we really gonna have this conversation? Fine…
Yes, of course, the Church teaches that the fall took place. But, if you read your catechism, you’ll find that the Church teaches that Genesis 3 is a figurative account of the fall. So… no literal ‘apple’, no literal ‘talking snake’. But, there was a first sin, rooted in pride.
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jcrichton
Guest
Just because there’s no literal meaning does not mean that there’s no actual event.
When you state that because it was not a literal depiction, hence Satan was not there (no talking serpent) then what took place–did Eve decide to disobey God on her own? Did Adam actually eat or not eat from the fruit (not an apple–this was one of those issues of a well-meaning Cleric attempting to explain what the fruit might look like); do we then remove Genesis 3:15 and the whole narrative of the correction?
Do you follow my meaning?
Simply making a blanket statement only gets us to a confused state.
…and yes, we must go there; that’s the reason why we were given Free Will (in the Image and Likeness), so that we think and search our relationship with God.
Please understand that I’m not being disrespectful or dismissive–as I challenge you I challenge myself; this too I believe comes from the Holy Spirit (search for God).
Maran atha!
Angel
When you state that because it was not a literal depiction, hence Satan was not there (no talking serpent) then what took place–did Eve decide to disobey God on her own? Did Adam actually eat or not eat from the fruit (not an apple–this was one of those issues of a well-meaning Cleric attempting to explain what the fruit might look like); do we then remove Genesis 3:15 and the whole narrative of the correction?
Do you follow my meaning?
Simply making a blanket statement only gets us to a confused state.
…and yes, we must go there; that’s the reason why we were given Free Will (in the Image and Likeness), so that we think and search our relationship with God.
Please understand that I’m not being disrespectful or dismissive–as I challenge you I challenge myself; this too I believe comes from the Holy Spirit (search for God).
Maran atha!
Angel
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