1260 Years of Persecution

[GeorgeSword]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation… I’m honestly not too spiffy when it comes to prophecy, I’d much rather spend my time reading the Gospels, and so I am at a loss of how to reply, and I really can’t find any information on it beyond these very claims.

 

[NHInsider]

I would begin by asking whoever is making the claim to cite sources, since this is a totally ridiculous claim.

Simultaneously I would ask them to identify specific examples, and ask if they know what the so-called “true” churches were teaching.

Which groups, exactly, would these descendents of the Reformers like to claim as their ancestors? And have they read what Luther and Calvin and Zwingli had to say about them?? I can assure you the answer to that one is NO.

Modern Protestants, for the most part, know nothing about the first fifteen hundred years of church history. I certainly didn’t, and I’m better educated than most. (In fact, it was studying secular history that started me on the road to Rome!)

 

[diggerdomer]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation… I’m honestly not too spiffy when it comes to prophecy, I’d much rather spend my time reading the Gospels, and so I am at a loss of how to reply, and I really can’t find any information on it beyond these very claims.

The same way you’d respond to those claiming the earth is flat. What is their evidence?

 

[LionHeart777]

Modern Protestants, for the most part, know nothing about the first fifteen hundred years of church history. I certainly didn’t, and I’m better educated than most. (In fact, it was studying secular history that started me on the road to Rome!)

I can certainly relate. Good for them that do though. I think the first ancient Christian literature that I got a hold of that started to get me to see that my views were off was Eusebius, “History of the Church.” I appreciate the kind Protestants who like to dialogue.

 

[diggerdomer]

I

Modern Protestants, for the most part, know nothing about the first fifteen hundred years of church history.)

Wow…I know a LOT of Protestants and I don’t know ANY of them who are ignorant of the first 1500 years of Christianity. You must live in a really peculiar situation (I’ve moved around quite a bit, and so have gotten to know a lot of people of all faiths in many areas).

 

[Victorious]

Wow…I know a LOT of Protestants and I don’t know ANY of them who are ignorant of the first 1500 years of Christianity. You must live in a really peculiar situation (I’ve moved around quite a bit, and so have gotten to know a lot of people of all faiths in many areas).

Well…how can one be well-educated in the history of Christianity and still believe in the truth of doctrines that went undetected for 1,500 years, until Luther, Calvin, Tynedale, Zwingli, etc. appeared on the scene?

May I recommend an excellent book, directly on the OP’s point: Dialogue Concerning Heresies by St. Thomas More. This is a response to the Protestant doctrines which had just begun to appear during More’s time. One thing the saint deals with at length is the question of what exactly is the True Church, and particularly the allegation that the “true church” was hidden until the Reformation, and is now being persecuted by the Catholic Church.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation… I’m honestly not too spiffy when it comes to prophecy, I’d much rather spend my time reading the Gospels, and so I am at a loss of how to reply, and I really can’t find any information on it beyond these very claims.

The 1260 years is based on the** 1260 days** during which the woman of Rev.12 is looked after in the wilderness. The equation of a day with a year is from Ezekiel 9.4. The verse in Ezekiel is the principle basis for the year-day theory. The persecution is the activity of the Great Red Dragon in regard to the Woman & the** Man-Child**. The GRD = Satan; interpreted as acting through the Great Whore of chapter 17. The GW is taken to be the Roman Church.​

As to when the 1260 prophetic year-days began or ended, SDAs begin them in 538 & end them in 1798, 1260 years later. Why 1798 ? Because then the Papal Beast - see Rev.13.1 - received a “deadly wound”, as in that chapter, when Rome was invaded by Napoleon’s armies: but it “lived” (same chapter.) There are other dates - one starts from 756 and ends in 2016…

These chapters, one suspects, attract the sort of people who would probably go in for crossword puzzles.

Does that help ?

 

[Trilor]

Sounds like an approach that would be taken by someone reading “The Trail of Blood”, a book that occasionally gets mentioned in baptist or fundamentalist circles.

 

[caoimhin]

As Michael points out, the selection of 538 as the beginning is pretty arbitrary. And it begs the question of the whole Catholic Church = Whore of Babylon thing which is an awful stretch. (Kevin’s Second Law of Exegesis: If you torture the text long enough, it will confess to anything.) And what are we to make of Alaric’s sacking of Rome in 410? Or the Avignon Papacy needing the protection of the French monarchy?

Wait! I have one of my own…

AD 584: the Lombards sack Monte Cassino, founded by St. Benedict
AD 1844 (584+1260): the Seventh Day Adventist church is founded

Thus proving that we had a 1260 year respite of sanity.

Or another:

AD 739: Charles Martel drives the Moors out of France, ensuring that Southern Europe remains Catholic
AD 1999 (739+1260): the Pope wears sunglasses belonging to U2 frontman Bono

Thus proving that the Popes have provided great impetus to European culture and identity for 1260 years.

 

[diggerdomer]

The 1260 years is based on the** 1260 days** during which the woman of Rev.12 is looked after in the wilderness. The equation of a day with a year is from Ezekiel 9.4. The verse in Ezekiel is the principle basis for the year-day theory. The persecution is the activity of the Great Red Dragon in regard to the Woman & the** Man-Child**. The GRD = Satan; interpreted as acting through the Great Whore of chapter 17. The GW is taken to be the Roman Church.​

As to when the 1260 prophetic year-days began or ended, SDAs begin them in 538 & end them in 1798, 1260 years later. Why 1798 ? Because then the Papal Beast - see Rev.13.1 - received a “deadly wound”, as in that chapter, when Rome was invaded by Napoleon’s armies: but it “lived” (same chapter.) There are other dates - one starts from 756 and ends in 2016…

These chapters, one suspects, attract the sort of people who would probably go in for crossword puzzles.

Does that help ?

No, crossword puzzles are much more meaningful, beneficial, and rational.

 

[peary]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation… I’m honestly not too spiffy when it comes to prophecy, I’d much rather spend my time reading the Gospels, and so I am at a loss of how to reply, and I really can’t find any information on it beyond these very claims.

How do you respond? You simply IGNORE them and their ignorance.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

As Michael points out, the selection of 538 as the beginning is pretty arbitrary. And it begs the question of the whole Catholic Church = Whore of Babylon thing which is an awful stretch. (Kevin’s Second Law of Exegesis: If you torture the text long enough, it will confess to anything.) And what are we to make of Alaric’s sacking of Rome in 410? Or the Avignon Papacy needing the protection of the French monarchy?

Wait! I have one of my own…

AD 584: the Lombards sack Monte Cassino, founded by St. Benedict
AD 1844 (584+1260): the Seventh Day Adventist church is founded

Thus proving that we had a 1260 year respite of sanity.

Or another:

AD 739: Charles Martel drives the Moors out of France, ensuring that Southern Europe remains Catholic
AD 1999 (739+1260): the Pope wears sunglasses belonging to U2 frontman Bono

Thus proving that the Popes have provided great impetus to European culture and identity for 1260 years.

The reason for choosing 538 was that Justinian I (527-65) gave some sort of recoignition to the position of the Roman bishop in that year - I forget the details .​

Other choices have included:

• 410 to 1670 - Alaric the Goth sacked Rome in 410: just as you suggested
• 455 to 1715 - Rome was sacked again in 455
• 475 to 1735
• 606 to 1866
• 756 to 2016

Events on the Continent, & especially in the 1850s & '60s, encouraged a lot of interest in date-setting - that was just before the Papal States were lost, so Italian politics was watched with enormous interest. The SDA church took corporate & legal form at that very time, in the early 1860s.

The only problem with 584 is that it does not necessarily imply anything directly papal - the 1260 years are significant because at the end of the period the Pope (AKA the First Beast AKA the man with the number 666) is stricken with a deadly wound.

Not content with finding all manner of strange things in Revelation, those who go in for this kind of thing usually introduce assorted visions from Daniel as well; especially chapters seven to 12. The effect is exotic, to say the least, with its menagerie of Beasts, Great Red Dragon, bear, leopard, he-goat, assorted horns, & so on. I find it very difficult to keep track of all the livestock.

 

[Benadam]

1260 divided by 360 equals 3.5.

1260 symbolizes a duration of captivity or exile.
[

](Douay-Rheims Bible, Daniel Chapter 7)

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak words against the High One, and shall crush the saints of the most High: and he shall think himself able to change times and laws, and they shall be delivered into his hand until a time, and times, and half a time.

Below describes the beginning of exile.
[

](Douay-Rheims Bible, Daniel Chapter 12)

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man that was clothed in linen, that stood upon the waters of the river: when he had lifted up his right hand, and his left hand to heaven, and had sworn, by him that liveth for ever, that it should be unto a time, and times, and half a time. And when the scattering of the band of the holy people shall be accomplished, all these things shall be finished.

The duration of exile is over in the passage below.
[

](Douay-Rheims Bible, Apocalypse (Revelation) Chapter 11)

Apocalypse 11[

11](Douay-Rheims Bible, Apocalypse (Revelation) Chapter 11) And after three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them. And they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon them that saw them.

 

[judechild]

How do you respond? You simply IGNORE them and their ignorance.

It’s hard to ignore the objection of a friend.

 

[Rooibok]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation… I’m honestly not too spiffy when it comes to prophecy, I’d much rather spend my time reading the Gospels, and so I am at a loss of how to reply, and I really can’t find any information on it beyond these very claims.

Hi
Have you found the answer you are looking for? Please let me know if you have a satisfied answer.
I have been searching for the 1260 day/year from Catholic perspective but can not find anything.

 

[mark_a]

Alright, how am I to respond to someone claiming that the 1260 years of persecution (sorry, I can’t recall the exact verse, sorry) applies to the Papal persecution of the ‘true church’ which was apparently hidden until the Reformation.

Which true church?

 

[Rooibok]

Which true church?

I apologise for the misunderstanding. Having search all over I did not find any Catholic standpoint regarding the 1260 days/years.
What is the Catholic view regarding the 1260 days/year?

 

[mark_a]

I apologise for the misunderstanding. Having search all over I did not find any Catholic standpoint regarding the 1260 days/years. What is the Catholic view regarding the 1260 days/year?

The Church probably doesn’t have any more of a stand on this than it does on Aesop’s fables.

 

[Ecoclimber]

To affirm that the Reformation was valid, one would have to argue that Christ was wrong when he told Peter in Matt: 16:18 " And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." Otherwise according to their conjecture and logic, the gates of hell prevailed against Christ’s church for 1500 years which is absurd. They do not believe the Catholic Church is Christian so apparently to them, there was no Christian Church until the Reformation?

Then you have Calvin who rejects the concept of Papal authority and with all hypocrisy makes himself ‘Pope’ over his own denomination by declaring that if anyone disagrees with his teaching shall be put to death as a heretic. Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609). He was born slightly before John Calvin died and was actually taught by Calvin’s son-in-law. He was a Calvinist until one day when forced to defend his beliefs and found that his opponent could more ably defend his views against Calvinism. This caused Arminius to reject his Calvinistic background and “sought to modify Calvinism so that ‘God might not be considered the author of sin, nor man an automation in the hands of God.’” John Calvin carried out his degree by burning and torturing many arminians to death such as Michael Servetus.

Many new heretical leaders acting as ‘Popes’ over their new protestant heretical denominations began to persecute each other through similar means and with wars against each other and the Catholic Church.

Blessings to All,