* [14:30] The ruler of the world: Satan; cf. Jn 12:31; 16:11

[Giggly_Giraffe]

John 14

If Jesus calls satan the ruler of the world, does tha mean we are in hell?

 

[ynotzap]

No, although it feels like it at times. What it means to the best of my understanding is that when Adam sinned, and grace, or the Holy Spirit was lost, we inherited original sin and it’s consequences. Also Satan after his fall was cast into hell,a spiritual state separated from the Beatific Vision of God, Heaven for eternity. He was allowed to roam the earth. Satan is an angel by nature, and he possesses more power than humans, he is closer to God in his nature. It is said that his presence in the world is to “test the saints” We are born rebels, because we are sinners, thats why we have to be reborn again of Water and the Spirit (Baptized) Satan is the king of rebels, and in our sinful state, because he has more power than us he can control us through our weaknesses, with his angelic powers he can influence our minds, our thinking, our bodies with possessions, and obsessions, he can deceive us by illusions, and apparitions, he can work on our imaginations, and he can even kill us if God would allow it. Without the Holy Spirit the devil is in control. Jesus came to rescue us from his power, his bondage over us. So if we want to escape his hold on us, we must turn to Jesus for salvation, and become adopted children of God, and receive His Holy Spirit

 

[Neofight]

John 14

If Jesus calls satan the ruler of the world, does tha mean we are in hell?

Wow! I really like your question…should stimulate great discussion.

I would say that is exactly what it means for some people. That means those who are not living in hell (on earth) are living in heaven on earth, and today’s Gospel Acclamation verifies that!

Peace and all Good!

 

[Fuego]

John 14

If Jesus calls satan the ruler of the world, does tha mean we are in hell?

It means the world is under Satan’s sway, for now, that is. He rules the world now because practically all people are under his influence, whether knowingly or unknowingly.

Jesus’ statement in John 14:30 is consistent with the revelation He gave to John in Rev.12:9, where He revealed that Satan “deceiveth the whole world.” That revelation tells us why Jesus referred to Satan as the ruler of this world.

Satan has deceived the vast majority of the people in this world into going his way rather than God’s way and His commandments. In doing so, he has become this world’s ruler. But there will come a time when God will bind Satan “that he should deceive the nations no more” (Rev. 20:2-3).

 

[mikekle]

Does anyone think its a bit odd for a being as all powerful as God himself actually granting things to an angel that had rebelled against him, wanting to sit on the throne instead, and being kicked out of heaven for good?

Ive always thought it was strange that Satan seemed to have so much power in the world today…I know God is more powerful, but Satan still has quite a bit more power for an angel, especially one that rebelled as he did against the almighty…a God who is known for being JUST and throwing down his wrath for those deserving of it…so where is the wrath against satan and the other fallen angels for that matter…that is the other thing, not only did satan try to take over heaven, but he also managed to convince 1/3 of Gods angels to instead follow him…all this, and STILL god is granting satan things?

Something seems wrong with this picture, the fact that we are not given all the details and only know a small part of the puzzle, I think may be important here, I think there is MUCH more going on that we expect in regards to God and satan, and their relationship to each other.

So, really, an un-godly person COULD expect the same treatment as satan when they die as well, God is said to be just and fair, so if satan was granted all kinds of things, maybe a human who dies hating God and wanting to take over, will be given all kinds of things? If God did this for an angel, it only goes that he would do the same (or much more) for a race he is said to care more about…right?

 

[Darryl_B]

John 14

If Jesus calls satan the ruler of the world, does tha mean we are in hell?

No. Hell is the destination. The place prepared for the devil and his angels. This was prior to the work on the cross. Satan has since been bound. Only to be loosed a little time at the end of the age.

 

[JohnR77]

Satan has since been bound.

Provided that we avail ourselves of the grace of Jesus Christ, Repent, Convert, Pray, get Baptized into His Church, follow His teachings, follow His Vicar the Pope, avail ourselves of the grace from the Seven Sacraments He instituted, etc. correct ?

But what if, say a person spends his life and money trying to “do good” all the while acting contrary to what God has revealed through His Church ?
.

 

[ynotzap]

Provided that we avail ourselves of the grace of Jesus Christ, Repent, Convert, Pray, get Baptized into His Church, follow His teachings, follow His Vicar the Pope, avail ourselves of the grace from the Seven Sacraments He instituted, etc. correct ?

But what if, say a person spends his life and money trying to “do good” all the while acting contrary to what God has revealed through His Church ?
.

If he is doing good to the best of his knowledge and will (no bad will) , if he is not "enlightened by "the Good News of Jesus’ he is innocent and I believe God in His justice takes that into account He is not acting completely contrary to God’s revelation if he is doing good A man is judged by what he knows, not by what he doesn’t know. There is the possibility of culpable ignorance if he was afforded the opportunity to know the truth of the “Good News” and didn’t seek to inquire.

 

[ynotzap]

Trying to do good is a sign of a “good will” not “bad will” The angels said at the birth of Jesus, "Peace on earth and peace to men of “good will” With the coming of Jesus, comes the “enlightenment” that sets a man of good will on the road call “Straight”

 

[JohnR77]

If he is doing good to the best of his knowledge and will (no bad will) , if he is not "enlightened by "the Good News of Jesus’ he is innocent and I believe God

I think we agree, BUT more clarification is badly needed for our society to prosper as God intends.

You are speaking about the individual’s guilt or culpability. And to that I understand you to correctly advance God’s revelation.

Now, getting back to Satan and his influence, if a person, even if through no fault of his own, advances something contrary to God’s will he is still under the influence of Satan and doing Satan’s will and advancing Satan’s kingdom, as it were.

That is why it is imperative that we evangelize God’s revelation and spread His influence through His Church.

A person’s guilt might be mitigated because of his ignorance, but evil deeds are still evil. And evil deeds have consequences, BAD ones.

.

 

[ynotzap]

Agreed!!

 

[ynotzap]

Does anyone think its a bit odd for a being as all powerful as God himself actually granting things to an angel that had rebelled against him, wanting to sit on the throne instead, and being kicked out of heaven for good?

Ive always thought it was strange that Satan seemed to have so much power in the world today…I know God is more powerful, but Satan still has quite a bit more power for an angel, especially one that rebelled as he did against the almighty…a God who is known for being JUST and throwing down his wrath for those deserving of it…so where is the wrath against satan and the other fallen angels for that matter…that is the other thing, not only did satan try to take over heaven, but he also managed to convince 1/3 of Gods angels to instead follow him…all this, and STILL god is granting satan things?

Something seems wrong with this picture, the fact that we are not given all the details and only know a small part of the puzzle, I think may be important here, I think there is MUCH more going on that we expect in regards to God and satan, and their relationship to each other.

So, really, an un-godly person COULD expect the same treatment as satan when they die as well, God is said to be just and fair, so if satan was granted all kinds of things, maybe a human who dies hating God and wanting to take over, will be given all kinds of things? If God did this for an angel, it only goes that he would do the same (or much more) for a race he is said to care more about…right?

When God creates an angel, because the angel sins against God, God does not uncreate the angel. God’s acts are eternal, the angel will always exist, with his own nature. Satan never leaves his eternal damnation and suffering even when he roams the earth "…like a roaring lion, seeking to devour souls. " The beauty of God is that no matter how much power he gives to a creature, even if the creature uses it against God, God is still God in full control. The creature is doomed to eternal failure and frustration Satan knows that, his punishment is to keep trying, when he knows it is futile. He is condemned to do the unintelligent thing. He was made a Bearer of Light, next to the throne of God. Now he made himself the bearer of untruth, a lie, and its believed that he would destroy himself if he could There are fools in the world who become his followers. It is believed he hates them most because they remind him of himself

 

[Aloysium]

:twocents:

He tempted Eve and tempted Christ. We don’t need him to tempt us; we do very well on our own, thank you.
Perhaps he is a puppet of sin, who so sinful, has become sin itself. As a being does Satan actually have any power?
Like all puppets of sin, he is filled with earthly power that we, in our own sinfullness, have handed over to him.
Whether a democracy, a kingdom, or dictatorship, it is those doing the will of the ruler that give him his power.
This place isn’t eternal, we only have glimpses here of heaven and hell.