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Rodrigo_Bivar
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Tu quoque is never, yes never, a good way to argue, no matter from which perspective.
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cestusdei
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A whole bunch? I think not. There were relatively few incidents and we punished those who did it. I think we reacted with restraint. Especially given the Muslims were dancing in the steets and having parties. I too talk to soldiers who have come back. Many of them tell me that no one reports the good things they do over there. We do not target civilians on purpose. The enemy does. I suspect the Germans and Japanese in WWII were upset at our attacks. Should we have stopped and let them win? I was in the military myself. If you are not prepared to “kill people and break things” then do not join the service. War is extremely unpleasant, but we didn’t start this one. If we do not win the war will come back here to our homes.
The majority of Muslims tacitly support the terrorists. To them we are infidel and they have persecuted us for centuries. They butcher Christians daily. Their level of atrocities far exceeds ours. I challenge you to view the videos of Americans being beheaded. Islam must change and reform. If it doesn’t then this war will get worse. The hate comes from them. Look at their reaction to the Popes words. They riot and murder. Shot a nun in the back. All over words they didn’t like. This is barbaric. I suggest instead of view America as the bad guy you discover the real enemy who would slit your throat and believe they were doing Allah a favor.
I will be happy to forgive the Muslims. When they stop killing us, enslaving us, beheading us, crucifying us, and finally apologize and change.
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cestusdei
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Log, I suspect I can find some bloodshed in any religion. But Islam is the only one that continues to use it to spread their religion. Although the Hindu’s seem to be picking up on it. Keep in mind the first post, a 14 year old child was slowly beheaded because he was a Christian. Does that bother you?
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BryPGuy89
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Im done apparently we both are so far stuck in our own views that debating the pros and cons, right and wrong, propaganda and truth and so on for ever won’t change anything. I made my point, farewell my friend.
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cestusdei
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I could see your propaganda right away. It is probably what you have been taught. I went to a very liberal college. If they had had their way we would still be dealing with the USSR.
The key point here is that our enemy wants to establish a world wide caliphate which will impose sharia on the planet. They are not going to stop unless we stop them.
I do suggest you not join the military. You won’t be happy in it. And you will be a danger to your comrades.
The key point here is that our enemy wants to establish a world wide caliphate which will impose sharia on the planet. They are not going to stop unless we stop them.
I do suggest you not join the military. You won’t be happy in it. And you will be a danger to your comrades.
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BryPGuy89
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Im definitely no liberal my friend, I’m a Catholic who just happens to be obsessed with the Bible and what the Church teaches. I have no fear of an enemy or death or being dominated by Islam, the Catholic Church will never fall it says so in the Bible and Islam allows Christians to practice their faith. I’m reassured and comfident in my faith that a imperialistic faith doesn’t threaten me spiritually or mentally, even if it does physically. Governments come and go, empires rise and fall and only God knows thier time and allows them to exist. Rome was like Islam a dominant army against Christians and events developed to the point where it basically converted because of the Holy spirit and the work it did throou the saints of old. Nothing new here Christianity has been oppressed before and God allowed them to over come that struggle it will happen again. Trust in God not he actions of man.
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cestusdei
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I am glad you are Catholic and love the Church. But remember Islam has attacked our Church for centuries. They even invaded Rome and sacked St. Peter’s and descrated the tomb of the Apostle. In their nations your fellow Catholics suffer terribly. God does not forbid us from defending ourselves. That is also part of our tradition.
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sandmountainsli
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Amen!
Just remember that they would use the tomb of St. Peter as a urinal and the Bible as toilet paper if they could!
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BryPGuy89
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When? My memory fails to reacall ever a Muslim army in Rome. Hannibal was, but no Muslims, Germanic tribes yes, but no Muslims. Refresh my memory of when the Muslims ever made it that deep or even reached the Italian peninsula or German lands or French, or Austrian. I know about Spain and Romania, but not the inner parts. I can’t even really recall any real terrible events between Catholicism and Islam besides the crusades, which was sent to aid Byzantium against Muslim incursions into Orthodox lands and take the Holy Land. I don’t know Catholics have been of any Christian group the most excepted of anyother and in contrast have it much easier in Muslim lands, even if that easier is still harsh. I think it better we have to struggle sometimes reminds us what are our priorities in life are. Many saints and martyrs put themselves into positions of struggle and oppostion and excepted it and did their works with a happy heart knowing that they did it for Christ and the reward comes in the next life and this one is unimportant in contrast.
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Loginus
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That it does. What Im not ok with is condemning and entire ppl/religion (lets face ppl assume if your brown or from the middle-east, you are muslim) for the actions of the minority.
Especially if the accusers are in the same boat.
Honestly, the suggestions on these forums are absurb and hateful, even calling for the heads of all Muslims. Aside from a gross abomination of anything remotely christian, these ‘solutions’ would ensure a bloody end and quite possible a pyrrhic(sp?) victory.
So you’ll have to excuse me if I value human life and rationality as opposed to savage bloodshed
(I think this is the last for the night for me, gnite all. More ranting and bickering tommorow, i promise
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palmas85
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Hate to break this one to you my friend, but I am from one of the countries other than the US. Yes, I came here as a young man and made a life for myself here, and collected several medals serving in the armed forces of this country along with many others who came here from overseasFunny, christians in America also believe that God’s rules must be followed or we suffer the consequences.
As for digusted by western culture? Hate to break it to you but most ppl globally dispise the US. But hey, thats what for destroying smaller nations and then patting yourself on the back calling yourself a hero
As to Christians in the US apparently all believing in the obedience to Gods law, I can only say a few words, abortions are available in most states, and fiercely fought for by many who claim to be Christians, homosexuality is not only tolerated but glorified as a valid and posibly superior lifestyle by many of our enlightened brothers, teenage and child pregnancy is running at an all time high and geting worse.
A personal story, at Wal Mart the other day, I saw a teengae girl around 14 or so with a group of her friends geting ready to take a group picture. The mother was busily fluttering around geting everything ready. The initial girl turns around revealing that she was probably at least 7 months pregnant. All of her friends laughingly placed their hands on her belly and with everyone smiling and mom yelling encouragement, the photo was taken and congratulations on her big day offered. Some of the girls semed jealous. .The girl, in fact all of the girls were wearing Rosaries around their necks or black tee shirts with drawings of the Virgin de Guadalupe on them, symbolically, I supose, expressing their great faith in God and the Virgin.
Divorce and re-marriage are at an all time high and geting worse, and co habitation outside of marriage is more usual than not.
You don’t routinely see these type of things in orthodox Muslim communities worldwide, and that is the primary reason that they hate our western culture, along with the fact that we are Christians, which they totally reject. not because we destroy small nations.
By the way, my home nation of the Philipines has been fighting the Muslims for many many years, particularly in my own province, so I think I probably know just a little about the situation
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pumpqeen
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CESTUSDEI, IF ONLY THE REST OF THE INFIDELS COULD SEE IT THE WAY YOU DO.
You are absolutely correct to say “The key point here is that our enemy wants to establish a world wide caliphate which will impose sharia on the planet. They are not going to stop unless we stop them.”
Look at Thailand now. The muslim general who kicked out the buddhist prime minister, thaksin, who had made him in-charge of the military in the first place. So much for “gratitude”, and its all because of the religion. The instated prime minister by the muslim general now declares that the blacklist of muslim insurgents in southern Thailand will be removed.
WORSE, syiarah laws may be implemented in the southern parts of Thailand. Does Thailand even know what is happening?!
People will be stuck in islam, unable to leave islam. Religion will no longer be free in southern Thailand and rapists will escape free from conviction unless 4 male witnesses present during the time of the rape and willing to stand during trial!
If the UN does not put a stop to the spread of Islam, by denouncing islam’s syariah law as a violationg of civil rights the world will not get better. It will get sicker by the day.
AS for BryPGuy89, I would like to say this “if not for the saints, would you even be a christian?” So, if the saints had the same attitudes as you “have the faith, do nothing, leave everything to God” would you even be able to hold the bible? Goodness. Your faith has no understanding. Blind faith leads to sin. Why? Because you’re ignorant and you sin without even knowing why. God made christians a light for this world. If the light does not give forth the light of righteousness, of what use is the light? He who has more will be given more, he who has little will have even that little taken away from him.
You are absolutely correct to say “The key point here is that our enemy wants to establish a world wide caliphate which will impose sharia on the planet. They are not going to stop unless we stop them.”
Look at Thailand now. The muslim general who kicked out the buddhist prime minister, thaksin, who had made him in-charge of the military in the first place. So much for “gratitude”, and its all because of the religion. The instated prime minister by the muslim general now declares that the blacklist of muslim insurgents in southern Thailand will be removed.
WORSE, syiarah laws may be implemented in the southern parts of Thailand. Does Thailand even know what is happening?!
People will be stuck in islam, unable to leave islam. Religion will no longer be free in southern Thailand and rapists will escape free from conviction unless 4 male witnesses present during the time of the rape and willing to stand during trial!
If the UN does not put a stop to the spread of Islam, by denouncing islam’s syariah law as a violationg of civil rights the world will not get better. It will get sicker by the day.
AS for BryPGuy89, I would like to say this “if not for the saints, would you even be a christian?” So, if the saints had the same attitudes as you “have the faith, do nothing, leave everything to God” would you even be able to hold the bible? Goodness. Your faith has no understanding. Blind faith leads to sin. Why? Because you’re ignorant and you sin without even knowing why. God made christians a light for this world. If the light does not give forth the light of righteousness, of what use is the light? He who has more will be given more, he who has little will have even that little taken away from him.
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Rodrigo_Bivar
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In 846AD the Arabs sacked Rome and robbed the Basilica of Saint Peter and San Paolo fuori le Mura. To prevent this from happening again, Pope Leo IV ordered the building of the Leonine Wall around Rome.
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pumpqeen
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And there will be silence after your last post Rodrigo.
Once a muslim claim is denounced, they go all quiet. Then after a time, they appear again to ask the same silly question.
Once a muslim claim is denounced, they go all quiet. Then after a time, they appear again to ask the same silly question.
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pro_universal
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Why did you go to such a bad university? Are you saying that no one should take your degree seriously, since you just sat through “propaganda courses” with a bunch of air-headed hippies?
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BryPGuy89
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Wow, can’t say I remember ever learning that, if I did then I forgot. That is actually an interestin story to read. Interesting how once Islamic armies were pushed back the people of the region easily and quickly converted to other faiths. Islam has time and again gained support and easily crumbled over history.
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cestusdei
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Log, if you want to see a real beheading I can provide a link. It is not for weak stomachs. You can watch as the crowds join in. I have seen NO protests of this kind of thing from Muslims.
Bry, let’s help Islam crumble again.
pro, some of my courses I didn’t take seriously myself. But I did learn all about air head hippy profs. I also learned to question and not just believe what they said. They didn’t like that and punished me for it.
Bry, let’s help Islam crumble again.
pro, some of my courses I didn’t take seriously myself. But I did learn all about air head hippy profs. I also learned to question and not just believe what they said. They didn’t like that and punished me for it.
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BryPGuy89
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Aggression isn’t the only way to make Islam crumble again and so I choose another path. Crumble it will I have no doubt about that as it has to, no question about it.
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cestusdei
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I don’t speak of aggression, but self-defense.
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Steadfast
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Muslim extremists want to push the vast middle off the fence.
A Pareto Principle is in effect there. If 20% of the ulama is extremist or sympathetic to extremist goals and ventures, 80% is just trying to get along.
At the same they share some important basic assumptions with their more extreme co-religionists.
They hate Israel, and they believe that western culture is decadent and that we want to export this decadence into Muslim lands, they also believe that we’re greedy and venal and that all we really want from them is their oil.
These ideas are very common among Muslims, and they are the bedrock of much extremist ideology.
What the extremists want to do is polarize the ulama (the muslim global community) driving the fence sitters into their camp.
Some believe that the 9/11 attacks were an attempt to drive the US and their allies to enact reprisals against Muslims in their own countries, which in turn would drive these “moderate Muslims” into the arms of the extremists.
While it didn’t happen exactly this way it is certainly true that horror stories like the ones coming from gitmo (true or not) and abu ghraib (true or not) and the airports of America as they implement racial profiling programs for prospective terrorists (true or not) are certainly having the effect of radicalizing a segment of the majority which before had been at least dormant.
And this is why we cannot afford to screw around with these people. We cannot win the PR war. They care very little for civil or human rights.
Our liberal egalitarian assumptions about enlightened government are hamstringing us in dealing with them.
And this is the cultural issue for us. What do we do? Do we modify our commitment to civil liberty and seek to deal them such a blow that they never recover and are cowed forever? Or do we hope that eventually, somehow, our ideals win their way into the hearts and minds of a people who derive from an entirely different set of sociological, political, cultural and religious assumptions?
A Pareto Principle is in effect there. If 20% of the ulama is extremist or sympathetic to extremist goals and ventures, 80% is just trying to get along.
At the same they share some important basic assumptions with their more extreme co-religionists.
They hate Israel, and they believe that western culture is decadent and that we want to export this decadence into Muslim lands, they also believe that we’re greedy and venal and that all we really want from them is their oil.
These ideas are very common among Muslims, and they are the bedrock of much extremist ideology.
What the extremists want to do is polarize the ulama (the muslim global community) driving the fence sitters into their camp.
Some believe that the 9/11 attacks were an attempt to drive the US and their allies to enact reprisals against Muslims in their own countries, which in turn would drive these “moderate Muslims” into the arms of the extremists.
While it didn’t happen exactly this way it is certainly true that horror stories like the ones coming from gitmo (true or not) and abu ghraib (true or not) and the airports of America as they implement racial profiling programs for prospective terrorists (true or not) are certainly having the effect of radicalizing a segment of the majority which before had been at least dormant.
And this is why we cannot afford to screw around with these people. We cannot win the PR war. They care very little for civil or human rights.
Our liberal egalitarian assumptions about enlightened government are hamstringing us in dealing with them.
And this is the cultural issue for us. What do we do? Do we modify our commitment to civil liberty and seek to deal them such a blow that they never recover and are cowed forever? Or do we hope that eventually, somehow, our ideals win their way into the hearts and minds of a people who derive from an entirely different set of sociological, political, cultural and religious assumptions?
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