150,000 Flock to Vatican to Support Pope Over Abuse

[Miss_Linda]

View attachment 7883

A crowd estimated by the Vatican at 150,000 filled St. Peter’s Square on Sunday in a major show of support for Pope Benedict XVI over the clerical sex abuse scandal.

Benedict said he was comforted by such a “beautiful and spontaneous show of faith and solidarity” and again denounced what he called the “sin” that has infected the church and needs to be purified.

Citing estimates from Vatican police, the Vatican press office said 150,000 people had turned out for the demonstration organized by an association of 68 Italian lay groups.

Despite a drizzling rain, the balloon- and banner-toting faithful from around Italy overflowed from the piazza; banners hung up on Bernini’s colonnade encircling the piazza read “Together with the pope,” and “Don’t be afraid, Jesus won out over evil.”

Such large crowds are usually reserved for major holiday Masses and canonizations, not for Benedict’s brief Sunday blessings from his studio window. The crowd interrupted Benedict frequently with applause and shouts of “Benedetto!” and the pontiff himself strayed from his prepared remarks to thank them again and again.

“Thank you for your presence and trust,” he said. “All of Italy is here.”

Benedict didn’t refer explicitly to the scandal, but repeated his recently stated position that the scandal was born of sins within the church, which must be purified.

“The true enemy to fear and to fight against is sin, the spiritual evil that unfortunately sometimes infects even members of the church,” he said.

The Vatican has been mired in scandal amid hundreds of reports in Europe, the United States and elsewhere of priests who raped and molested children while bishops and Vatican officials turned a blind eye. Benedict’s own handling of cases has also come under fire.

Rome’s centre-right Mayor Gianni Alemanno was in the crowd, along with other pro-Vatican Italian officials.

“We want to show our solidarity to the pope and transmit the message that single individuals make mistakes but institutions, faith and religion cannot be questioned,” Alemanno told Associated Press Television News. “We will not allow this.”

 

[Loboto-Me]

I would have loved to be there too!

 

[Miss_Linda]

I would have loved to be there too!

Me, too! Hopefully the Holy Father recognizes that the many thousands who were at St. Peter’s Square were only a small representation of the many hundreds of thousands who were there “in spirit”.

 

[barb_finnegan]

I would have loved to be there too!

Me, too!

It was very heartening to read and see this.

These are the ‘little people’ [not just in age] who are not counted in the polls of the secular media. These are the people who don’t shout and scream their ‘demands’, as one reads about in the press or sees on TV.

This brings great comfort to the Holy Father, knowing that there are thousands of us ‘lambs and sheep’ of his worldwide flock who love, support, and stand with him!

Viva il Papa!

 

[anode]

View attachment 7883

A crowd estimated by the Vatican at 150,000 filled St. Peter’s Square on Sunday in a major show of support for Pope Benedict XVI over the clerical sex abuse scandal.

Benedict said he was comforted by such a “beautiful and spontaneous show of faith and solidarity” and again denounced what he called the “sin” that has infected the church and needs to be purified.

Citing estimates from Vatican police, the Vatican press office said 150,000 people had turned out for the demonstration organized by an association of 68 Italian lay groups.

Despite a drizzling rain, the balloon- and banner-toting faithful from around Italy overflowed from the piazza; banners hung up on Bernini’s colonnade encircling the piazza read “Together with the pope,” and “Don’t be afraid, Jesus won out over evil.”

Such large crowds are usually reserved for major holiday Masses and canonizations, not for Benedict’s brief Sunday blessings from his studio window. The crowd interrupted Benedict frequently with applause and shouts of “Benedetto!” and the pontiff himself strayed from his prepared remarks to thank them again and again.

“Thank you for your presence and trust,” he said. “All of Italy is here.”

Benedict didn’t refer explicitly to the scandal, but repeated his recently stated position that the scandal was born of sins within the church, which must be purified.

“The true enemy to fear and to fight against is sin, the spiritual evil that unfortunately sometimes infects even members of the church,” he said.

The Vatican has been mired in scandal amid hundreds of reports in Europe, the United States and elsewhere of priests who raped and molested children while bishops and Vatican officials turned a blind eye. Benedict’s own handling of cases has also come under fire.

Rome’s centre-right Mayor Gianni Alemanno was in the crowd, along with other pro-Vatican Italian officials.

“We want to show our solidarity to the pope and transmit the message that single individuals make mistakes but institutions, faith and religion cannot be questioned,” Alemanno told Associated Press Television News. “We will not allow this.”

Organized by 68 lay groups?

Not very spontaneous.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Organized by 68 lay groups?

Not very spontaneous.

Wow. That’s the only aspect that you take from the whole report? A bit ‘selective’, aren’t we? ** **

For those who have already prejudged the Catholic Church on the issue and remain rooted in bias, venom, and anger, even if this had turned out to be ‘totally spontaneous’ and twice the size, they would likely tell us it was ‘mob mentality’ and ‘showed the lack of basic intelligence’ and the ‘brainwashing’ of pitiful Italians. . .

IOW, unless it plays to the bias, it must be ‘tweaked’ so it can’t affect the bias. Because of course, unless it is spontaneous, it just isn’t ‘worthy’.

 

[anode]

No. It just isn’t ‘spontaneous’. If it were 68 communist cells organizing a huge anti-Catholic rally, billed as ‘spontaneous’, I’ll bet you’d have plenty to say!

 

[Miss_Linda]

Organized by 68 lay groups?

Not very spontaneous.

sigh

Whether the gathering was spontaneous or orchestrated was really not the point of the article.

This was really the point of the article (and the point of the gathering):
“We want to show our solidarity to the Pope and transmit the message that single individuals make mistakes but institutions, faith and religion cannot be questioned,” Alemanno told Associated Press Television News. “We will not allow this.”

 

[anode]

It’s very nice that they all showed up.

Benedict described it as ‘beautiful and spontaneous’.

Beautiful, maybe. Spontaneous, no.

 

[centurionguard]

It’s very nice that they all showed up.

Benedict described it as ‘beautiful and spontaneous’.

Beautiful, maybe. Spontaneous, no.

**I just don’t get your angle. Why make something negative out of something positive.
Unless of course you find something wrong with devout faithful Catholics showing support for the beloved Pope amidst the media hype in this scandal within the Church.

Just some time ago the Pope hosted a private audience with victimized abuse survivors within the Church. The Pope prayed, hugged, and cried embracing many of them in his arms.

The Pope is doing all he can within his power to eradicate this burden of sin within the Church which is shouldered equally on all Catholics.

The very least we can do is pray and give our support to our beloved Pope.
Why get caught-up in spontaneity? Its just a word **

 

[portarica]

sigh

Whether the gathering was spontaneous or orchestrated was really not the point of the article.

This was really the point of the article (and the point of the gathering):
“We want to show our solidarity to the Pope and transmit the message that single individuals make mistakes but institutions, faith and religion cannot be questioned,” Alemanno told Associated Press Television News. “We will not allow this.”

Single individuals acting in concert have cost the church billions of dollars , and single individuals acting in concert have condoned abuse and engaged in subterfuge and precipitated suicides and tortured parents.

All the above individuals should do the best thing for the church and resign.

The church will survive and the teachings of Jesus will become more in focus.

Peace

 

[Aboveallbereal]

The Pope carries a heavy burden and knows he is the personal target of the servants of evil. As Vicar of Christ he is the target of Our Lord’s enemies and it must be an awful burden to carry in these times when the Chruch is so excoriated and reviled.

It must be greatly comforting and uplifting for him to know that millions of the faithful both support him and trust him on this as on everything. Long Live our Holy Father than he may wisely shepherd us through this turmoil

 

[portarica]

The Pope carries a heavy burden and knows he is the personal target of the servants of evil. As Vicar of Christ he is the target of Our Lord’s enemies and it must be an awful burden to carry in these times when the Chruch is so excoriated and reviled.

It must be greatly comforting and uplifting for him to know that millions of the faithful both support him and trust him on this as on everything. Long Live our Holy Father than he may wisely shepherd us through this turmoil

All the pope has to do to shepherd us through this mess, is start telling the complete truth and stop tolerating subterfuge.

Bingo, problem solved!

But apparently that isn’t in the repertoire of our leadership. Which begs the question - are they acting as shepherds of the Lord’s lambs or are they acting as princes of the church?

Peace

 

[centurionguard]

All the pope has to do to shepherd us through this mess, is start telling the complete truth and stop tolerating subterfuge.

Bingo, problem solved!

But apparently that isn’t in the repertoire of our leadership. Which begs the question - are they acting as shepherds of the Lord’s lambs or are they acting as princes of the church?

Peace

**In the emotionality of everything happening in this sexual abuse scandal in the Church I might side with your opinion.

However; there are other issues to consider for these wayward priests involved. I don’t like the idea that the Pope is being blamed in all this in carrying out what should be the just punishment to hand-down to those priests who are guilty. Automatically most in the Church in their just anger, especially the victims involved are thinking the Pope should excommunicate these wayward priest. But what if some of these priests have sought a humble and genuine sacramental confession?

Should they be removed from their position? Definitively yes!

I remember years ago visiting a special retreat center for Catholic alcoholic priests where they received special counselling and rehabilitation for their sickness while they joined in daily prayers and did hard work tilling and planting in a farmers field as their health permitted.

While its true the gravity of sexual abuse scandal against vulnerable children is far more serious; is the Pope in the Catholic Church bound by his scruples to excommunicate every priest involved and throw them out on their backs?

Its true that these priest involved in the sexual abuse scandal owe a huge debt back to God for ruining the lives of their victims. Our Pope is in a very difficult position to weigh in and deliberate every case involved.

I myself am a heterosexual male victim gang-raped and tortured at gunpoint by two men and a women. I never knew their identities. I am still horrified by the painful memories that will stay with me until my dying day. But I have learned in these last 30 years through many shed tears and emotional upheaval to forgive my assailants. Even though I still feel pain in my heart I am glad that feeling and burden of hate against my assailants who ruined my life have been lifted. Perhaps that is the biggest step in my healing which I owe to my faith in Jesus Christ and the Church.**

Jesus once said; **If you lead my little one’s astray, better you were born with a heavy mill stone around your neck.

All rape and incest assailants carry a heavy mill stone around their necks.

But shouldn’t they have the chance like all sinners to seek pardon and forgiveness for their sins? This is part of the wisdom in the Catholic Church and the reason why Excommunication is not always the quick rational or solution. Our Pope knows this.**

 

[portarica]

**In the emotionality of everything happening in this sexual abuse scandal in the Church I might side with your opinion.

However; there are other issues to consider for these wayward priests involved. I don’t like the idea that the Pope is being blamed in all this in carrying out what should be the just punishment to hand-down to those priests who are guilty. Automatically most in the Church in their just anger, especially the victims involved are thinking the Pope should excommunicate these wayward priest. But what if some of these priests have sought a humble and genuine sacramental confession?

Should they be removed from their position? Definitively yes!

I remember years ago visiting a special retreat center for Catholic alcoholic priests where they received special counselling and rehabilitation for their sickness while they joined in daily prayers and did hard work tilling and planting in a farmers field as their health permitted.

While its true the gravity of sexual abuse scandal against vulnerable children is far more serious; is the Pope in the Catholic Church bound by his scruples to excommunicate every priest involved and throw them out on their backs?

Its true that these priest involved in the sexual abuse scandal owe a huge debt back to God for ruining the lives of their victims. Our Pope is in a very difficult position to weigh in and deliberate every case involved.

I myself am a heterosexual male victim gang-raped and tortured at gunpoint by two men and a women. I never knew their identities. I am still horrified by the painful memories that will stay with me until my dying day. But I have learned in these last 30 years through many shed tears and emotional upheaval to forgive my assailants. Even though I still feel pain in my heart I am glad that feeling and burden of hate against my assailants who ruined my life have been lifted. Perhaps that is the biggest step in my healing which I owe to my faith in Jesus Christ and the Church.**

Jesus once said; **If you lead my little one’s astray, better you were born with a heavy mill stone around your neck.

All rape and incest assailants carry a heavy mill stone around their necks.

But shouldn’t they have the chance like all sinners to seek pardon and forgiveness for their sins? This is part of the wisdom in the Catholic Church and the reason why Excommunication is not always the quick rational or solution. Our Pope knows this.**

I doubt many have told you that you encouraged your victimization, and I doubt that many employers of the people who abused you hid your abusers and lied about them on “job recommendations” .

I never said excommunicate them , but they shouldn’t be priests or bishops or popes if they engaged in abuse, condoned abuse or engaged in subterfuge.

Forgive them their sins, but get them out of positions of authority.

Peace

 

[Loboto-Me]

.

Forgive them their sins, but get them out of positions of authority.

Peace

I think that Centurianguard said exactly what you just stated.

CenturianGuard, that was very well said and I completely agree with all that you stated.

Alleluia to God that you found the grace to forgive your attackers. I was molested as a child and can identify with the spiritual freedom that true forgiveness allows.
Bless you CG, may you continue on your road to healing and faith.

 

[centurionguard]

I doubt many have told you that you encouraged your victimization, and I doubt that many employers of the people who abused you hid your abusers and lied about them on “job recommendations” .

I never said excommunicate them , but they shouldn’t be priests or bishops or popes if they engaged in abuse, condoned abuse or engaged in subterfuge.

Forgive them their sins, but get them out of positions of authority.

Peace

I doubt many have told you that you encouraged your victimization, and I doubt that many employers of the people who abused you hid your abusers and lied about them on “job recommendations” .

Not quite sure if I follow you here. But to answer your question, nobody ever told me that I encouraged my own victimization. It was a matter of being in the wrong place and situation at the wrong time. Furthermore; I don’t see how any victim of rape or incest can be blamed or take the guilt for their own victimization as if deserving what happened to them.

I see this kind of insinuation happen too damned often, where victims of rape and incest are subjectively categorized as the product of their own demise by people who even call themselves Christians. Such people are inordinately quick to judge when they know nothing about such issues at hand, nor have they lived such horrors of having your very soul ripped from your being and thrown in the sewer. Its taken me thirty years to find my soul that was lost. I hide my pain for twenty-three years living in hell. Nobody knew about my pain, no employers, past friends or even my close family…nobody knew until I turned my life over to God. He knew the pain of my silence. Its taken me these last seven years to learn how to lay this indescribable pain at the foot of His Cross.

 

[portarica]

Not quite sure if I follow you here. But to answer your question, nobody ever told me that I encouraged my own victimization. It was a matter of being in the wrong place and situation at the wrong time. Furthermore; I don’t see how any victim of rape or incest can be blamed or take the guilt for their own victimization as if deserving what happened to them.

I see this kind of insinuation happen too damned often, where victims of rape and incest are subjectively categorized as the product of their own demise by people who even call themselves Christians. Such people are inordinately quick to judge when they know nothing about such issues at hand, nor have they lived such horrors of having your very soul ripped from your being and thrown in the sewer. Its taken me thirty years to find my soul that was lost. I hide my pain for twenty-three years living in hell. Nobody knew about my pain, no employers, past friends or even my close family…nobody knew until I turned my life over to God. He knew the pain of my silence. Its taken me these last seven years to learn how to lay this indescribable pain at the foot of His Cross.

My point was that no sane or reasonable person would accuse child abuse victims of fault. However,the lawyers for Cardinal Law accused some of the victims of abuse in the Boston crisis of contributing to the abuse by their own negligence. Specifically in the case of a 12 year old abused by Geoghan, one of the most hideous of all the abusers.

As to searching for your soul, that is the travail that victims and their mothers and fathers cope with to this day. Adding to the grief and suffering is the condoning of abuse and subterfuge that the leadership of our church engages in to this day.

If the leaders of our church turned their lives over to God, I’m positive their response would be different, because there is no way any of their deceit and subterfuge is inspired by what Jesus taught or is in response to requests for guidance made through the ministry of discernment.

Peace

 

[centurionguard]

My point was that no sane or reasonable person would accuse child abuse victims of fault. However,the lawyers for Cardinal Law accused some of the victims of abuse in the Boston crisis of contributing to the abuse by their own negligence. Specifically in the case of a 12 year old abused by Geoghan, one of the most hideous of all the abusers.

As to searching for your soul, that is the travail that victims and their mothers and fathers cope with to this day. Adding to the grief and suffering is the condoning of abuse and subterfuge that the leadership of our church engages in to this day.

If the leaders of our church turned their lives over to God, I’m positive their response would be different, because there is no way any of their deceit and subterfuge is inspired by what Jesus taught or is in response to requests for guidance made through the ministry of discernment.

Peace

However,the lawyers for Cardinal Law accused some of the victims of abuse in the Boston crisis of contributing to the abuse by their own negligence.

No disrespect towards you but this has to be one of the most absurd statements typical of blood sucking lawyers. Negligence as being an mistake for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Such a statement only adds insult to injury and heaps a pile of guilt back upon any afflicted victim as pigeonholing them being at fault.

Lawyers could use this kind of poor rational placing the onus of fault on every person in life involved in any kind of misfortune. All humans are vulnerable to any misfortune no matter what the gravity of seriousness even if some are in a more vulnerable state than others.

eg. I don’t think it would be fair to blame a nurse working a mid afternoon shift and finishing in the late evening and then coming out of the hospital to find her car in the parking lot, only to have an attacker beat and rape her on the spot. She would incur no guilt. But a ruddy lawyer might look at it differently.

Adding to the grief and suffering is the condoning of abuse and subterfuge that the leadership of our church engages in to this day.

I won’t argue that yes there is bad leadership in the Church. But can we of good moral conscious blame every priest, bishop, cardinal or even the Pope himself for all this?

Most certainly not. Its regrettable to say it could take years or possibly decades before the Catholic Church cleans up its act. Perhaps far sooner than we expect. For some us perhaps its not happening fast enough in our justified anger and outrage. We all feel this burden of pain.

So what are we Catholics going to do about it? Sit on are duffs and complain?
What (“EFFORTS”) can we make with extra prayers, mortification of the flesh and desires of material wealth are (“WE”) willing to Sacrifice so that God sees that we want to change NOT this world, but ourselves for the better for the Glory of His Son Jesus Christ.

Peace
Chris

 

[portarica]

No disrespect towards you but this has to be one of the most absurd statements typical of blood sucking lawyers. Negligence as being an mistake for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? Such a statement only adds insult to injury and heaps a pile of guilt back upon any afflicted victim as pigeonholing them being at fault.

Lawyers could use this kind of poor rational placing the onus of fault on every person in life involved in any kind of misfortune. All humans are vulnerable to any misfortune no matter what the gravity of seriousness even if some are in a more vulnerable state than others.

eg. I don’t think it would be fair to blame a nurse working a mid afternoon shift and finishing in the late evening and then coming out of the hospital to find her car in the parking lot, only to have an attacker beat and rape her on the spot. She would incur no guilt. But a ruddy lawyer might look at it differently.

I won’t argue that yes there is bad leadership in the Church. But can we of good moral conscious blame every priest, bishop, cardinal or even the Pope himself for all this?

Most certainly not. Its regrettable to say it could take years or possibly decades before the Catholic Church cleans up its act. Perhaps far sooner than we expect. For some us perhaps its not happening fast enough in our justified anger and outrage. We all feel this burden of pain.

So what are we Catholics going to do about it? Sit on are duffs and complain?
What (“EFFORTS”) can we make with extra prayers, mortification of the flesh and desires of material wealth are (“WE”) willing to Sacrifice so that God sees that we want to change NOT this world, but ourselves for the better for the Glory of His Son Jesus Christ.

Peace
Chris

If the leadership takes decades more to clean up a mess that could have been cleaned up decades ago, it points to a total lack of competence or a total lack of understanding about what Jesus taught.

I am somewhat perplexed as to which of those two explanations is correct.

The sacrifice we should be making is that of realizing that the belief we had in man to do Jesus’ work was faulty and that other men are more qualified to be doing that work.

All we need to sacrifice is the pride we have in believing in the abilities of certain men. The self mortification and the like might make us feel better about ourselves, but will do nothing but encourage those who condoned abuse and engage in subterfuge to continue doing so.

Peace