1938 Diary shows pope's opposition to Hitler

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ROME — A 1938 diary written near the end of Pope Pius XI’s papacy confirms his opposition to fascism was hardening as the outbreak of World War II grew closer, a historian said Tuesday after examining documents in the Vatican’s just-opened secret archives.

The diary quoted Pius as saying, “‘I won’t be afraid. I prefer to beg for alms’” than to give into pressures from Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s fascist regime, said French historian Philippe Chenaux.

chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4198840.html
 
fianlly, some sold evidence besides the countless things already stated to prove that the Holy Father was no nazi!
 
AdvanceAlways said:
fianlly, some sold evidence besides the countless things already stated to prove that the Holy Father was no nazi!
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Note that this refers to Pope Pius XI [Ambrogio Ratti], not Pope Pius XII [Eugenio Pacelli]. I think that Pope Pius XI’s encyclical *Mit Brennender Sorge *clearly proved his anti-Nazi stance. He wrote it in German instead of the usual Latin so there would be no mistaking his words. Most of the attacks have been directed at Pope Pius XII. Much like the current flurry, bigots and media love to grab a single phrase to make a publicity campaign , ignoring all discussion and proof to the contrary.
 
Terrible how some have to actually read it to appease themselves. “Oh he wrote about it in his diary…now I believe!”
 
Which Pope was it, who, when Theodor Herzl went to him to ask for support for a Jewish state, said he would not help the Jews in any way because they killed Christ, and because they had not accepted Jesus?

Was that Pius X? Or the one this thread is about, anyone know? Something tells me it was Pius X but I can’t recall.
 
jonfan said:
ROME — A 1938 diary written near the end of Pope Pius XI’s papacy confirms his opposition to fascism was hardening as the outbreak of World War II grew closer, a historian said Tuesday after examining documents in the Vatican’s just-opened secret archives.

The diary quoted Pius as saying, “‘I won’t be afraid. I prefer to beg for alms’” than to give into pressures from Italian dictator Benito Mussolini’s fascist regime, said French historian Philippe Chenaux.

chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4198840.html
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Dear Jonfan,

Perhaps you mean Pope Pius XII (not XI) who was at the holy see during WWII. In the past, I believe that Pius XII was wrong for not condemning the Nazi. Later I heard that he almost make the vatican went broke for helping the jews. That news has changed my view toward him eversince.
 
Hi Everyone,

jonfan had stated the remark below

(A 1938 diary written near the end of Pope Pius XI’s papacy confirms his opposition to fascism was hardening as the outbreak of World War II grew closer)

I hate to bust his bubble, but I need to correct him. Fascism was Benito Mussolini’s party. Hitler party was called National Socialism Party not the other. Please correct yourself.

You are talking about two different party’s

Just FYI.

Frank J
 
Sepharad said:
Which Pope was it, who, when Theodor Herzl went to him to ask for support for a Jewish state, said he would not help the Jews in any way because they killed Christ, and because they had not accepted Jesus?

Was that Pius X? Or the one this thread is about, anyone know? Something tells me it was Pius X but I can’t recall.
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Herzl’s diary doesn’t say anything about killing Christ:

**"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jewish people… If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". --Pope St. Pius X (1903- 1914) to Theodore Herzl

**We have to rely on Herzl to relay what may or may not be an accurate restatement of the Pope’s comments, but what we do know from the diary is that he didn’t quote the Pope as saying anything about killing Christ. Is the rest imbellishment because Herzl’s Zionist movement didn’t find support with the Pope? Maybe, maybe not.
 
Eden said:
Herzl’s diary doesn’t say anything about killing Christ:

**"We are unable to favor this [Zionist] movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The ground of Jerusalem, if it were not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise. The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore, we cannot recognize the Jewish people… If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will be ready with priests and churches to baptize all of you". --Pope St. Pius X (1903- 1914) to Theodore Herzl

**We have to rely on Herzl to relay what may or may not be an accurate restatement of the Pope’s comments, but what we do know from the diary is that he didn’t quote the Pope as saying anything about killing Christ. Is the rest imbellishment because Herzl’s Zionist movement didn’t find support with the Pope? Maybe, maybe not.
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I must have seen a misquote, or perhaps recalled it incorrectly.

Regardless, the response by Pius X was incredibly insensitive and triumphalistic by today’s standards, but considering the time, maybe it was typical.
 
Sepharad said:
I must have seen a misquote, or perhaps recalled it incorrectly.

Regardless, the response by Pius X was incredibly insensitive and triumphalistic by today’s standards, but considering the time, maybe it was typical.
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I don’t know that we can rely on Herzl to have given an entirely fair account of what was said. His diary entry could well have been embellished due to his disappointment over the unfruitful visit with the Pope.

This book addresses the issue of Pope Pius X and the Jews, but unfortunately, only the first page is available for viewing online:

jstor.org/pss/3168376
 
I just did a quick search, using, “Pope Pius X+Jews”, and I got mostly things about Pius XII.

But I did find this, which is by Garry Wills (who I THINK is a conservative Catholic, though I could be confusing him with someone else):

online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Religion/popesagainstjews.html

This article is about the attitudes and activities of Popes before V2, as far as Jews are concerned. Just doing a quick look-over, it seems Pius X had some pretty unsavory things about him as it relates to the Jews (apart from the Herzl incident), but IMO not as bad as Pius IX.
 
Sepharad said:
I just did a quick search, using, “Pope Pius X+Jews”, and I got mostly things about Pius XII.

But I did find this, which is by Garry Wills (who I THINK is a conservative Catholic, though I could be confusing him with someone else):
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On Garry Wills:

catholicleague.org/research/papalsins.html

catholicleague.org/research/willswhy.htm

And from a review of yet another book slandering Pope Pius XII:

Unfortunately, among the sources acknowledged at the end of his book are such **“anti-Catholic Catholics” **as James Carroll, John Cornwell, and Garry Wills; but relying on such sources in trying to render anything like the proper “feel” of authentic Catholicism and how the Vatican functions is about as reliable as consulting the Jews for Jesus for insights into orthodox Jewish beliefs. These writers are arguably not even Catholic any longer, in spite of their pretence of being legitimate critics operating from “inside” the Catholic Church.

catholic-league.info/pius.php?id=7

I doubt his portrayal of *any *Pope is accurate.
 
But would that make his information incorrect?

It is WELL known to those who are students of Jewish history that the Catholic church, unfortunately, has a long history of persecuting Jews. But then, so do some of the various Eastern Orthodox churches. The Protestant churches do not have anywhere near as long a history, but that is perhaps because they have not been around as long to do as much.
 
Sepharad said:
But would that make his information incorrect?

It is WELL known to those who are students of Jewish history that the Catholic church, unfortunately, has a long history of persecuting Jews. But then, so do some of the various Eastern Orthodox churches. The Protestant churches do not have anywhere near as long a history, but that is perhaps because they have not been around as long to do as much.
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I don’t know if the information is correct, it just makes me wary, given the source.
 
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