1958 Papal Election question

[JD27076]

I was talking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election, and they really brought up a point that made me question things. I never received a source, so I couldn’t say this was true or not, but I can only give you what they said and if this is actually true.

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, or Pope Gregory XVII (Of the Palmarian Catholic Church.), was apparently elected with a majority vote over Angelo Roncalli(Pope John XXIII).

However, I made the argument of the white vs. black smoke on which black meant no pope and a white mean a pope.

The sedevancantist then went on to explain that their were several eye witnesses that state that the smoke was white for Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, but the Cardinals then went on to say we desired Angelo Roncalli as the Pope and put his name on the ballot.

Is their any justification or falsehoods found within this argument?

Thank you.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Hutton Gibson: The War Is Now, Jan. 2006 Gary Giuffre & The ‘Siri Thesis’

The “Siri Thesis” Unravels

The “Siri thesis” is built upon one key point: the issue of the “white smoke” that appeared for a brief time on October 26, 1958, before changing to black. The thesis is that Siri was elected on that occasion, that the smoke was white to signal his election, but that the color changed to black when the conclave annulled or overturned Siri’s election.

A key piece of evidence for this theory has been an article written by Silvio Negro for the evening edition of Corriere della Sera (Milan, Italy) for October 27, 1958.

But, according to the elder Gibson, the Negro article has been misunderstood by the proponents of the “Siri thesis.” Negro narrates a story from the 1939 conclave, when the smoke was also a confusing mixture of white and black, until the secretary of the conclave, one Monsignor Santoro, sent a note to Vatican Radio to advise that, so matter what color the smoke seemed, it was white, and that Eugenio Pacelli had been elected Pope Pius XII.

In the elder Gibson’s December newsletter, however, this “Siri thesis” is denounced as false, built on shoddy scholarship and inadequate fact checking.

The proponents of the “Siri thesis,” perhaps due to limited familiarity with the Italian language, had misunderstood Negro’s article, and concluded that he was writing about the 1958 conclave. Thus, for proponents of the “Siri thesis,” Monsignor Santoro sent out a note from the 1958 conclave to say that, no matter what the color of the smoke, a Pope had been elected. As the elder Gibson notes in his December newsletter, however, there was one problem: Santoro was not the secretary of the 1958 conclave at all, but of the 1939 conclave. The entire “Siri thesis” was based on a simple misreading of an Italian newspaper article.

 

[geekborj]

I was talking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election, and they really brought up a point that made me question things. I never received a source, so I couldn’t say this was true or not, but I can only give you what they said and if this is actually true.

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, or Pope Gregory XVII (Of the Palmarian Catholic Church.), was apparently elected with a majority vote over Angelo Roncalli(Pope John XXIII).

However, I made the argument of the white vs. black smoke on which black meant no pope and a white mean a pope.

The sedevancantist then went on to explain that their were several eye witnesses that state that the smoke was white for Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, but the Cardinals then went on to say we desired Angelo Roncalli as the Pope and put his name on the ballot.

Is their any justification or falsehoods found within this argument?

Thank you.

Being too technical can sometimes bring you to this.

I believe that at the end of the day, what matters is who will be officially stated by the Conclave/College of Cardinals after their meeting. In this case, Pope John XXIII was elected officially, and duly instituted as the pope.

If we always come up with “conspiracy theories” such as these, then we should question the election of all “bad popes” even before. I believe that whoever is allowed to sit on the Office of Peter, there will always be the Holy Spirit that will guide him – Jesus/God promised that!

 

[Julia_Mae]

Hutton Gibson: The War Is Now, Jan. 2006 Gary Giuffre & The ‘Siri Thesis’

The “Siri Thesis” Unravels

Very nice. Thank you.

 

[agnes_therese]

Not trying to be snarky here, I mean this question seriously --Why would you take the word of a sedevacantist over that of the Vatican?

I was talking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election, and they really brought up a point that made me question things. I never received a source, so I couldn’t say this was true or not, but I can only give you what they said and if this is actually true.

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, or Pope Gregory XVII (Of the Palmarian Catholic Church.), was apparently elected with a majority vote over Angelo Roncalli(Pope John XXIII).

However, I made the argument of the white vs. black smoke on which black meant no pope and a white mean a pope.

The sedevancantist then went on to explain that their were several eye witnesses that state that the smoke was white for Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, but the Cardinals then went on to say we desired Angelo Roncalli as the Pope and put his name on the ballot.

Is their any justification or falsehoods found within this argument?

Thank you.

 

[Cristiano]

I was talking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election, and they really brought up a point that made me question things. I never received a source, so I couldn’t say this was true or not, but I can only give you what they said and if this is actually true.

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, or Pope Gregory XVII (Of the Palmarian Catholic Church.), was apparently elected with a majority vote over Angelo Roncalli(Pope John XXIII).

However, I made the argument of the white vs. black smoke on which black meant no pope and a white mean a pope.

The sedevancantist then went on to explain that their were several eye witnesses that state that the smoke was white for Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, but the Cardinals then went on to say we desired Angelo Roncalli as the Pope and put his name on the ballot.

Is their any justification or falsehoods found within this argument?

Thank you.

First of all, they are lying and gossiping about the Cardinals. Those are grave sins and a true catholic would do his best to avoid grave sins. I honestly doubt that those people are trying their best to be good Catholics. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Second, the Cardinals take an oath when they first enter the Conclave that they will follow the papal rules and that they will maintain absolute secrecy about the voting process. The penalty for making any disclosure is automatic excommunication. How much would you trust a Cardinal that is willing to be excommunicated for gossiping?

 

[Richard320]

Don’t forget - the freemasons kidnapped Paul VI and replaced him with Folger’s Crystals.

Oh, wait…I’m getting my conspiracies confused.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Not trying to be snarky here, I mean this question seriously --Why would you take the word of a sedevacantist over that of the Vatican?

I agree. I think the idea of speaking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election or any other church topic is a very bad idea. Certainly, if the person is a neighbor, relative, co-worker one should have plenty of other topics to discuss - football, the weather, what the local school board is up to, how best to deep fry a turkey, etc.

 

[1ke]

I was talking to a sedevancantist

Well that is the problem.

and they really brought up a point that made me question things.

Based on other posts of yours, I suggest you talk to your priest in confession about your ongoing tendency to seek out these conspiracy type websites and people that produce serious doubt in your mind. This, to me, is bordering on purposely putting yourself in near occasions of sin. You have difficulty, it seems, discerning fact from craziness, and should NOT be seeking this out if it is causing you to doubt your faith and the Church.

STOP doing this. Go talk to your priest and read only those books approved by the bishops and STOP going to these fringe websites and then coming here upset about what you have read. You are clearly not well enough grounded in the truth of the Catholic faith to be doing this.

 

[wisedom]

I was talking to a sedevancantist about the 1958 election, and they really brought up a point that made me question things. I never received a source, so I couldn’t say this was true or not, but I can only give you what they said and if this is actually true.

Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, or Pope Gregory XVII (Of the Palmarian Catholic Church.), was apparently elected with a majority vote over Angelo Roncalli(Pope John XXIII).

However, I made the argument of the white vs. black smoke on which black meant no pope and a white mean a pope.

The sedevancantist then went on to explain that their were several eye witnesses that state that the smoke was white for Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, but the Cardinals then went on to say we desired Angelo Roncalli as the Pope and put his name on the ballot.

Is their any justification or falsehoods found within this argument?

Thank you.

we the faithful are fully in the dark about the secrecy of elections and it is not improbable or impossible that ‘politics’ play an important part, just as in any other elections!

i remember reading the book “in God’s name”, some 30 years back, which spelt out many wrong-doings or illegalities associated with a caucus around the pontiff!

so it does not surprise me that you have cared to state your doubts which are news to me and welcome too!

By the way, i don’t understand how gregory 17 could not have been Pope, for after john 23, there was no gregory 17…could it have been an earlier john, followed by gregory 17?

AS SCRIPTURE SAYS: “BE ALERT…DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY ANYONE…GOD ALONE IS YOUR FATHER…JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MASTER…THE HOLY SPIRIT IS YOUR TEACHER…”

 

[mikelionheart]

You should have no time at all for the garbage Sedevacantists come out with.

Tell them straight; “Stop being Protestant and come back to the Church.”