1967 Mass

[lak611]

My father recently passed away. When I was going through his things with my mother, I found a 1967 Missal. It was interesting because although the Mass was said in English not Latin, it seemed very similar to the TLM. Prayers at the foot of the altar, Confiteor, “Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof”, etc. About the only difference I noticed was the elimination of the Last Gospel. It seems that the changes that are forthcoming to the Novus Ordo actually are changing many of the prayers back to the 1967 Mass. I do have a question though. Was the 1967 Mass said ad orientum or versus populum? My mother does not remember.

 

[AJV]

My father recently passed away. When I was going through his things with my mother, I found a 1967 Missal. It was interesting because although the Mass was said in English not Latin, it seemed very similar to the TLM. Prayers at the foot of the altar, Confiteor, “Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof”, etc. About the only difference I noticed was the elimination of the Last Gospel. It seems that the changes that are forthcoming to the Novus Ordo actually are changing many of the prayers back to the 1967 Mass. I do have a question though. Was the 1967 Mass said ad orientum or versus populum? My mother does not remember.

There was no prohibition against versus populum even before the 60’s. It was just simply not that common, plus it involved certain rubrical difficulties which made ad orientum much more expedient. I would imagine though, that in 1967 with all the changes happening, the posture would be a lot more common.

One thing new introduced though, in 1965, was the proivison for the priest to celebrate the Mass of the Catechechumens at the sedilia rathere than at the altar after the kissing of the altar had taken place.

 

[BobP123]

My father recently passed away. When I was going through his things with my mother, I found a 1967 Missal. It was interesting because although the Mass was said in English not Latin, it seemed very similar to the TLM. Prayers at the foot of the altar, Confiteor, “Lord I am not worthy that you should come under my roof”, etc. About the only difference I noticed was the elimination of the Last Gospel. It seems that the changes that are forthcoming to the Novus Ordo actually are changing many of the prayers back to the 1967 Mass. I do have a question though. Was the 1967 Mass said ad orientum or versus populum? My mother does not remember.

Check out the words of the Consecration. I think there you’ll find the “for all” if it’s the right version. Yes, the “for all” was inserted BEFORE the Novus Ordo.

 

[lak611]

Check out the words of the Consecration. I think there you’ll find the “for all” if it’s the right version. Yes, the “for all” was inserted BEFORE the Novus Ordo.

Actually, you are correct. I did see that. That’s the big thing that is being corrected in the new rubrics that are supposed to be coming out next year. I don’t understand why “for all” ever got introduced in the first place. Not only is “for all” an inaccurate translation of the Latin, but it is also an inaccurate translation of the Greek from the Gospels of Matthew and Mark.

I noticed “and with your spirit” is also being brought back. I like that better than “and also with you”.

Was the 1967 Mass said until the Novus Ordo was introduced, or were there any other interim Masses?

 

[lak611]

One thing new introduced though, in 1965, was the proivison for the priest to celebrate the Mass of the Catechechumens at the sedilia rathere than at the altar after the kissing of the altar had taken place.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a sedilia?

 

[BobP123]

Actually, you are correct. I did see that. That’s the big thing that is being corrected in the new rubrics that are supposed to be coming out next year. I don’t understand why “for all” ever got introduced in the first place. Not only is “for all” an inaccurate translation of the Latin, but it is also an inaccurate translation of the Greek from the Gospels of Matthew and Mark.

I noticed “and with your spirit” is also being brought back. I like that better than “and also with you”.

Was the 1967 Mass said until the Novus Ordo was introduced, or were there any other interim Masses?

I believe that was the last version of the Mass before the 1970 Missal was introduced. Then there was another version, the 1975 Missal. But these newer editions were for all vernaculars of the Mass whereas the contemplated current changes affect the English (or Amchurch) Mass only.

The “and with your spirit” may be difficult to enforce. People are too used to saying it the other way. It’s almost automatic, like saying “hello.”

 

[lak611]

I believe that was the last version of the Mass before the 1970 Missal was introduced. Then there was another version, the 1975 Missal. But these newer editions were for all vernaculars of the Mass whereas the contemplated current changes affect the English (or Amchurch) Mass only.

What were the differences in the 1970 and 1975 Missals? Since I was born in 1969, I really don’t remember Mass between 1970 and 1975.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I was an altar boy during this entire time period and in high school. Let me give you my perspective.

In 1964 we had the TLM. In 1964, the Archdiocese created a new parish. I moved to the new parish. Our first Masses for a year were celebrated in a public gymnasium ad orientam.

In 1965 the “new” Mass was announced. The explanation from the pulpit was that we would be “introduced” to the “new” Mass in stages over the next few years. We were told that we should rely upon “missalettes” which would be placed in the pews (or on the folding chairs in our case). So, every six months or so there would be changes to the liturgy, less Latin - more English, changes to the wording of certain things, etc.

It was really very disconcerting because it seems they couldn’t make up their minds. E.g. The Lord be with you. R. And with thy Spirit which later became -And also with you (which, as we all know, is not what the Latin says). Or, for that matter, how long it took us to learn when making the Sign of the Cross, to switch from Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit.

By late 1967 our church was built. The Mass was said ad populum but there were communion rails installed in a very modernistic church. By this time the Mass was entirely in English but, as I recall, it was pretty much a translation of the TLM.

Between 1967 and 1970, they started introducing the various Eucharistic Rites and lo, Eucharistic Rite II found much favor as it was the shortest. And then the music changed, and the guitars came forth along with the electronic organs and…well, you know the story.

Bottom line: there was a transistion to the NO. We were specifically warned not to buy a Missal since things would be changing. Now, here we are 40 years down the road…I still have my 1962 St. Joseph Missal (which works really well with a TLM) but I have never bought an NO Missal and glad I haven’t since it looks like things are not the same again.

 

[BobP123]

What were the differences in the 1970 and 1975 Missals? Since I was born in 1969, I really don’t remember Mass between 1970 and 1975.

There may be better explanations but this should provide a start:

cfpeople.org/Books/GIRM/cfptoc.htm

 

[Genesis315]

I saw St. Padre Pio’s last Mass the other day and it was from before the Novus Ordo, but it was versus populum (even though there was also a beautiful high altar) with the opening prayers off to the side like on EWTN. The Mass was not shown in it’s entirety and the words were tough to hear, so I couldn’t tell the rest.

 

[lak611]

There may be better explanations but this should provide a start:

cfpeople.org/Books/GIRM/cfptoc.htm

Well, that 1975 version appears to be the same as the Novus Ordo Mass until the 2004 GIRM was introduced. Is there anything available for the 1970 version?

 

[lak611]

I still have my 1962 St. Joseph Missal (which works really well with a TLM) but I have never bought an NO Missal and glad I haven’t since it looks like things are not the same again.

I have a 1962 version Missal that I purchased last year from Baronius Press that I use if I go to a TLM. That’s great you still have your original 1962 Missal so you are all set if your neighbourhood starts having TLM again. I really hope they do offer it at least at one parish in every diocese. I attend a Novus Ordo parish, but occasionally I do attend TLM at a parish in my diocese which has it. Interestingly enough, I looked at my mother’s Missal from the 1950’s (I forgot exactly what year), and I would have no problem following the 1962 TLM with the 1950’s Missal because the changes weren’t that many.

 

[AJV]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is a sedilia?

The chair where the priest sits. Usually a three-thing arrangement for the priest, deacon and subdeacon.

Well, that 1975 version appears to be the same as the Novus Ordo Mass until the 2004 GIRM was introduced. Is there anything available for the 1970 version?

2004 is also the NO, no?

What are you looking for for the 1970 version?

 

[lak611]

I have never bought an NO Missal and glad I haven’t since it looks like things are not the same again.

I really don’t see the point in buying a Missal for the NO. Since everything is in English, there is no need to worry about understanding it. I will just look up the Lectionary readings ahead of time to review them before Mass. Unless somebody is a convert who is really unfamiliar with the Mass or a person for whom English is not the native tongue, I really don’t see a reason to buy a NO Missal.

 

[lak611]

The chair where the priest sits. Usually a three-thing arrangement from the priest, deacon and subdeacon.

Thank you.

2004 is also the NO, no?

What are you looking for for the 1970 version?

I wanted to know what was different in the 1970 NO compared to the 1975 NO.

 

[BobP123]

I really don’t see the point in buying a Missal for the NO. Since everything is in English, there is no need to worry about understanding it. I will just look up the Lectionary readings ahead of time to review them before Mass. Unless somebody is a convert who is really unfamiliar with the Mass or a person for whom English is not the native tongue, I really don’t see a reason to buy a NO Missal.

If I remember correctly, the NO readings are on a 3yr cycle so it wouldn’t be too beneficial to buy a hand missal for the NO. Especially since they have the widely-available disposable missallette now too.

 

[lak611]

If I remember correctly, the NO readings are on a 3yr cycle so it wouldn’t be too beneficial to buy a hand missal for the NO. Especially since they have the widely-available disposable missallette now too.

That’s true. Either they sell the Missals in 3 separate books for year A, B and C; or else that would be one really huge cumbersome book.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have a 1962 version Missal that I purchased last year from Baronius Press that I use if I go to a TLM. That’s great you still have your original 1962 Missal so you are all set if your neighbourhood starts having TLM again. I really hope they do offer it at least at one parish in every diocese. I attend a Novus Ordo parish, but occasionally I do attend TLM at a parish in my diocese which has it. Interestingly enough, I looked at my mother’s Missal from the 1950’s (I forgot exactly what year), and I would have no problem following the 1962 TLM with the 1950’s Missal because the changes weren’t that many.

Actually, I have two. One was my “little St. Joseph’s” which I received when I made my first Communion in 1958 (which was a smaller version of the Missal) and my 1962 which I received when I was Confirmed in March of 1963.

lak - even though the Mass is in English, Missals had prayers and devotions printed in them which are not printed in the missalettes. And besides, I always follow along with the readings.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Woah! DW has a copy of the St. Joseph’s Missal from 1966!

Here is the Ordinary of the Mass:

" While the priest recites the Prayers at the foot of the Altar with the misisters or server, the people usually recite or sing the Introit Antiphon and/or an Entrance hymn. (They may also recite the server’s parts)."

Latin: Introibo ad alatre Dei.

This was immediately followed by the Confiteor (again, in Latin).

[So the TLM prayers at the foot of the altar had already been abbreviated].

Petition for the remission of sins in Latin.

Introit - Kyrie X 3 as per the TLM.

Gloria - In Latin. English translation of Gloria in Missal far different from the Gloria of today.

Prayer - in Latin.

Epistle - in English. No communal acclamation. Server: Latin. Deo gratias.

Gradual - Priest: Lavaba me.

Gospel Acclamation: - Latin
After the Gospel. No communal acclamation. Server: Laus tibi, Christe. (not exactly Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ is it).

Missal - “Sermon or Homily”.

Creed - Latin. Again, a vastly different translation from the Latin then we use today.

Prayer of the Faithful:- Latin.

Offertory prayers - English.

Orate Fratres - Latin. English translation in Missal different from what we use today.

Preface - Latin. English responses different from today.

Sanctus - Latin. English translation different from today.

Canon- TLM Latin. (No Eucharistic acclamation)

(No great acclamation)

Pater Noster - Latin

No sign of peace. “At the breaking of the Host” Per omnia saecula saeculorum - Amen. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum - People Et cum spiritu tuo.

Agnus Dei - Latin.``

Communion of the Priest- Latin.

Communion of the Faithful - Latin.

People (3 times) Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum mem sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabiture anima mea.

Ablutions - Latin.

Communion antiphon (This is gone in the NO)

Prayer after Communion - Latin.

Dismissal - Latin.

Ite, missa est. Deo gratias.

No Last Gospel no prayer to St. Michael. No prayer for the conversion of Russia.

The Mass in 1966 folks…immediately after V II.

 

[Caesar]

Woah! DW has a copy of the St. Joseph’s Missal from 1966!

Here is the Ordinary of the Mass:

" While the priest recites the Prayers at the foot of the Altar with the misisters or server, the people usually recite or sing the Introit Antiphon and/or an Entrance hymn. (They may also recite the server’s parts)."

Latin: Introibo ad alatre Dei.

This was immediately followed by the Confiteor (again, in Latin).

[So the TLM prayers at the foot of the altar had already been abbreviated].

Petition for the remission of sins in Latin.

Introit - Kyrie X 3 as per the TLM.

Gloria - In Latin. English translation of Gloria in Missal far different from the Gloria of today.

Prayer - in Latin.

Epistle - in English. No communal acclamation. Server: Latin. Deo gratias.

Gradual - Priest: Lavaba me.

Gospel Acclamation: - Latin
After the Gospel. No communal acclamation. Server: Laus tibi, Christe. (not exactly Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ is it).

Missal - “Sermon or Homily”.

Creed - Latin. Again, a vastly different translation from the Latin then we use today.

Prayer of the Faithful:- Latin.

Offertory prayers - English.

Orate Fratres - Latin. English translation in Missal different from what we use today.

Preface - Latin. English responses different from today.

Sanctus - Latin. English translation different from today.

Canon- TLM Latin. (No Eucharistic acclamation)

(No great acclamation)

Pater Noster - Latin

No sign of peace. “At the breaking of the Host” Per omnia saecula saeculorum - Amen. Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum - People Et cum spiritu tuo.

Agnus Dei - Latin.``

Communion of the Priest- Latin.

Communion of the Faithful - Latin.

People (3 times) Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum mem sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabiture anima mea.

Ablutions - Latin.

Communion antiphon (This is gone in the NO)

Prayer after Communion - Latin.

Dismissal - Latin.

Ite, missa est. Deo gratias.

No Last Gospel no prayer to St. Michael. No prayer for the conversion of Russia.

The Mass in 1966 folks…immediately after V II.

I almost prefer a Novus Ordo (albeit in Latin, with all the tradition and reverance of the TLM) to this!