1st Century Church

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NotWorthy said:
Rightlydivide;3036884:
Show me where it is a legal dispute.

Jesus teaches us to obey our civil authorities. If that’s the case, then we should take legal disputes to the legal authorities.
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Mat 18:15 ¶ Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
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Luk 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
Luk 17:4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
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Its all in the context.
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NotWorthy said:
Rightlydivide;3036918:
Right, the trespass is against thee. It’s a sin. Not all sins are legal disputes are they? Think Las Vegas before answering.
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It can be sin. You bet. But it is not a sin if your brother has a different view than you do. How much are you going to try to stretch this verse??
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Rightlydivide said:
It can be sin. You bet. But it is not a sin if your brother has a different view than you do. How much are you going to try to stretch this verse??
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With that statement, you’ve just explained how we can have so many 100’s (yeah, I know, some say 1000’s) of denominations of Christian churches among non-Catholics.

How much am I stretching this verse? Well, I think no more than anyone else in The Church has done for 1900 years or so.
 
RD, do your women at your church wear head coverings? Are they allowed to talk in church?

Disciplines.
 
ChangingHeart said:
Are you joking? That is so lame that I’m starting to think that you are just intentionally being antagonistic, and are so stiff-necked and hard-hearted that you’d say something that even you don’t believe just to try to validate your argument that you realize you’ve already lost, but can’t accept defeat.

If you can’t see that and admit to that, I’m sorry, but you aren’t even worth continuing this discussion with, as I’d only be casting my pearls before swine if I went any further.
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This was rather uncharitable of me and I apologize.
 
ask for proof that the 1st Century Church denounced any doctrine or dogma taught by the “later” Catholic Church.
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Hi

How could the first century believers denounce a doctrine which came later?

It does not appeal to me.

Thanks
 
Show me someone in this list of ante-Nicene ECF that teach something contrary to current catholic teaching.
Volume 1 - The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus: Clement; Mathetes; Polycarp; Ignatius; Barnabas; Papias; Justin Martyr; Irenaeus
 
Rightlydivide said:
The church, all who are saved, is the church.
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That is classic faulty Protestant rhetoric. Protestants make that claim to try to justify the fact that they have openly rebelled against, rejected, hated, or not been born into the very Church that Jesus established, yet still feel that they are worthy of the title, “Christian,” or claiming the promise of John 16:13, a promise which does NOT extend to Protestants.

There is absolutely NO Biblical support whatsoever for the concept of an “invisible church.” That is merely a Protestant teaching, an unbiblical and invented tradition of man. In fact, the Bible outright contradicts it. Jesus said that the gates of Hell shall not prevail over His Church. (See Matthew 16:18.) Jesus also said that a divided kingdom will not last. (See Matthew 12:25.) The idea that Jesus established “an invisible church composed of true believers in all denominations,” can NOT be the case, because the “invisible church” is divided, divided kingdoms can not last, yet the gates of Hell can not prevail over the Church that Jesus established.

If you think that the “invisible church” is united in Christ, that isn’t true either. Some believe in a Jesus who died so that all they have to do is “accept” him in their hearts and they can then go on sinning and sinning and it doesn’t matter because they are “saved.” Others believe in a Jesus who died so that they can be forgiven, repent, and be sanctified, needing to abide in Christ till the end. Two very different concepts.

If the Church of the living God is the pillar and bulwark of truth(1 Timothy 3:15) and there are thousands of denominations that believe conflicting “truths,” clearly the “invisible church” is NOT the one that Jesus established.

Furthermore, where does the Bible say that any Joe Blow off the streets has the right to suddenly start his own church? I realize that Protestantism teaches that anyone who feels “called by God,” can just build his own church wherever he wants, whenever he wants, and base it on whatever theology his personal interpretation of Scripture tells him is correct, but that is far removed from Jesus’ plan for all His people, as he prayed in John 17:20-21. Furthermore, there is no Scriptural support for the idea that anyone can start their own independent church, yet still retain the name “Christian.” In fact, part of Romans 10:15 says, “and how can men preach unless they are sent?”

So realize, you belong to a cult, not to the Church that Jesus established. Realize that my logic is sound and clear and that any attempt to contradict it would be futile. Thank you.
 
Rolltide said:
Ginger2, do you believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist? If you do not, I can site some documents to prove that that particular belief existed all the way back to the first century, as an example of a belief that most Protestants do not hold but that Catholics do.
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I’m with the Catholics on this one! I think it is supported in Scripture. It is one of those God things that can not fully be understood or explained.

I would like to see the documents anyway.
 
Arnobius said:
I’m not sure that it is off topic. Since you said everything should be traceable to the first century, the issue of where “Trinity” was mentioned in the First Century is a valid question.
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Start a new thread. I have a response I would love to share!
 
Church_Militant said:
Show me someone in this list of ante-Nicene ECF that teach something contrary to current catholic teaching.
Volume 1 - The Apostolic Fathers with Justin Martyr and Irenaeus: Clement; Mathetes; Polycarp; Ignatius; Barnabas; Papias; Justin Martyr; Irenaeus
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From your list:

Iraneus 130 to 202 AD.

“We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith. For it is unlawful to assert that they preached before they possessed “perfect knowledge,” as some do even venture to say, boasting themselves as improvers of the apostles.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 3, 1, 1)
 
ChangingHeart said:
That is classic faulty Protestant rhetoric. Protestants make that claim to try to justify the fact that they have openly rebelled against, rejected, hated, or not been born into the very Church that Jesus established, yet still feel that they are worthy of the title, “Christian,” or claiming the promise of John 16:13, a promise which does NOT extend to Protestants.

So we are not Christians? Interesting.
There is absolutely NO Biblical support whatsoever for the concept of an “invisible church.”
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NotWorthy said:
RD, do your women at your church wear head coverings? Are they allowed to talk in church?

Disciplines.
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Those things are not disciplines, they are found in the Bible.
Yes, they were head coverings, which according to the text is long hair. They do not talk during a church service and they never teach men. We follow the Bible. Women who go to our church understand that. Now of course we get visitors who do not cover their head or also talk. They are welcome and usually are convicted of biblical truth.
 
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