2 Armies in Heaven?

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JeanneH

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I think I started this in the wrong forum. Sorry

From DR

Rev.12:7 And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels:
Rev.12:8 And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Rev.6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.
Rev.6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (holy and true) dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev.6:11 And white robes were given to every one of them one; and it was said to them, that they should rest for a little time, till their fellow servants, and their brethren, who are to be slain, even as they, should be filled up.

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Rev.19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called faithful and true, and with justice doth he judge and fight.
Rev.19:12 And his eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many diadems, and he had a name written, which no man knoweth but himself.
Rev.19:13 And he was clothed with a garment sprinkled with blood; and his name is called, THE WORD OF GOD.
Rev.19:14 And the armies that are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

It seems to me that first Michael and his ANGLES fought Satan
then at the end time Jesus will come with the SAINTS waiting under the altar. These are the ones in white robes.

So it is my conclusion that there are 2 different armies in heaven. Any thoughts?
A poster in the Apologetics forum thinks they are the same army.

Thanks
Jeanne
 
There is only one army in Heaven: The angelic army.

The saints join the angelic ranks when they enter Heaven.
 
Just because the armies of Heaven are dressed in white linen doesn’t mean they are the martyrs that were under the Throne (remember, they were encouraged to rest until the other martyrs that had not yet been martyred had joined them). There is only 1 army in Heaven. The Saints (including martyrs, excluding angels) are of a “higher order” (1 Cor 6:3 says, “Know you not that we shall judge angels ? how much more things of this world ?”).
 
First of all, it was and is pretty common to talk about different army groups, which are part of the same overall army, to be referred to as “armies”. “Hosts” is another popular one.

However, it would be much simpler to picture this in the Roman military or Hebrew military fashion. A lot of the time, the army would march out under its general. The archangel Michael would be an example of this.

The army could also march with Israel’s King leading it, as David sometimes did, as the emperor might decide to lead Rome’s legions. Jesus leading his hosts would be an example of this. (N.T. Wright points out that the whole thing about Jesus and his hosts coming from the air is very much written in the style of a history about a Roman colony being sent a rescue force led by the Emperor. People going up to meet him in the air are like people running outside the city to show their loyalty and joy by greeting the Emperor; they then have the joy of accompanying him back to the city as a victory parade.)

“Heavenly hosts” is pretty much synonymous with “angels”. I’m not saying it’s impossible that the yet-unresurrected saints fight as souls without bodies; but it doesn’t seem to be a general part of humans’ heavenly job description. (Other than in the last verse of the Marine Corps hymn.)
 
Mintaka said:
First of all, it was and is pretty common to talk about different army groups, which are part of the same overall army, to be referred to as “armies”. “Hosts” is another popular one.

However, it would be much simpler to picture this in the Roman military or Hebrew military fashion. A lot of the time, the army would march out under its general. The archangel Michael would be an example of this.

The army could also march with Israel’s King leading it, as David sometimes did, as the emperor might decide to lead Rome’s legions. Jesus leading his hosts would be an example of this. (N.T. Wright points out that the whole thing about Jesus and his hosts coming from the air is very much written in the style of a history about a Roman colony being sent a rescue force led by the Emperor. People going up to meet him in the air are like people running outside the city to show their loyalty and joy by greeting the Emperor; they then have the joy of accompanying him back to the city as a victory parade.)

“Heavenly hosts” is pretty much synonymous with “angels”. I’m not saying it’s impossible that the yet-unresurrected saints fight as souls without bodies; but it doesn’t seem to be a general part of humans’ heavenly job description. (Other than in the last verse of the Marine Corps hymn.)
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Hmmm
What about Rev19:14 Who are the ones following Christ in fine white and clean linen?
I think Michael’s’ army in heaven were angels, therefore spirits and without bodies. The followers of Christ must have had bodies to be clothed in fine white clean linen. And didn’t this army descend to earth with Christ?
Parts of the same army?
What are your thoughts
Thanks
Jeanne
 
I guess if an angel is a spirit then he can’t wear clothes. Is that what you’re saying? Remember, when Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah, it was because a couple of angels dragged him, his wife and his two daughters out of town. They also pulled him back into the house when the men of Sodom wanted to harm him. Angels have heavenly bodies (probably like the resurrected body Jesus had, and He interacted with the disciples, even eating with them). Add to this the fact that white is a common color for purity and righteousness, what other color would you expect angels to be dressed in?
 
I want to thank you all for your thoughts. This forum always gives me something to think about.
God Bless you all:thumbsup:
Jeanne
 
Cachonga said:
Just because the armies of Heaven are dressed in white linen doesn’t mean they are the martyrs that were under the Throne (remember, they were encouraged to rest until the other martyrs that had not yet been martyred had joined them). There is only 1 army in Heaven. The Saints (including martyrs, excluding angels) are of a “higher order” (1 Cor 6:3 says, “Know you not that we shall judge angels ? how much more things of this world ?”).
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The good angels already passed their test for loyalty to God. They cannot sin. This “judgment” of angels means that we will agree with God’s past righteous judgment of them (good angels and bad angels) on Judgment Day. The fallen angels are no longer in heaven and will spend eternity in hell after Judgment Day. They will no longer be able to tempt man since we will be incorruptible and immortal like the good angels who are in heaven now.

Jesus was created a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) The angels are of a higher spiritual order than mankind.

We become sons of God through Baptism and partakers of the Divine Nature but we must hold on to and perfect this sanctification which we received from God in order to inherit eternal life.
 
Jesus was created a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) The angels are of a higher spiritual order than mankind.

If your bible reads that Jesus was CREATED I would seriously consider changing bibles.
the DR says was MADE a little lower

1642 elattoo {el-at-to’-o}
from 1640;; v
AV - make lower 2, decrease 1; 3
  1. to make less or inferior: in dignity
  2. to be made less or inferior: in dignity
  3. to decrease in authority or popularity
Certainly much different than made don’t you think?
Jeanne
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