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georgemiller
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If God’s grace is sufficient why do so many of us faithfully seeking to do God’s will fail in large and grave ways?
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TRH1292
Guest
God’s Grace being sufficient means that God has given us all we need to faithfully follow him. That is, to abstain from Grave Sin.
But we humans still have free will, and often choose to reject or disobey God despite his Good Graces he has given us. All of us, at one time or another, have chosen a lesser thing instead of God.
But we humans still have free will, and often choose to reject or disobey God despite his Good Graces he has given us. All of us, at one time or another, have chosen a lesser thing instead of God.
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MaryT777
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Well said.
Mary.
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mikekle
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So, while his grace is sufficient, considering the condition of our modern day world, it is probably not enough for people today though…right?
Seems like God would recognize this?
Seems like God would recognize this?
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TiggerS
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God always gives us more than sufficient Grace to resist temptation. If we fail, it is not because Grace was insufficient to the failure or any sinful event in life at all.
God recognizes more clearly than we do, that we are sinners. If we fail, not only was His Grace more than sufficient to avoid failing - His Loving Mercy is more than sufficient to forgive the failing with our sorrow and true repentance. It could be said that God saw from eternity every single fault and failing, every single sin ever committed or to be commited, be it the greatest sin or the smallest sin and by every individual in every single age of mankind and then said “My Love for and My Mercy for them is far greater than all that”. And it is. We only have to contemplate (for two only) The Incarnation and The Death of Jesus on the cross.
Pride is an insidious and continual temptation, and it might be sometimes easier to think that perhaps God had not given us sufficient Grace to avoid giving in to temptation and failing and therefore, we can put the blame on God (or try to!). Sometimes it is not so easy to humbly and with sorrow repent owning fully and totally our own and every failure and sin and ask humbly His Divine Loving Mercy - which is always offered and granted Lovingly and with Divine Compassion - and without fail. But we have to ask for it since our will is free. It has been said that God, Who created us without our permission, cannot save us without it. Our will is completely free.
An account of Roman Crucifixion in the death of Jesus (warning - it is very graphic). It comes from Catholic Culture and a reliable Catholic resource and has been researched and written by various experts in their field: catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/overviews/seasons/lent/passion1.cfm
God recognizes more clearly than we do, that we are sinners. If we fail, not only was His Grace more than sufficient to avoid failing - His Loving Mercy is more than sufficient to forgive the failing with our sorrow and true repentance. It could be said that God saw from eternity every single fault and failing, every single sin ever committed or to be commited, be it the greatest sin or the smallest sin and by every individual in every single age of mankind and then said “My Love for and My Mercy for them is far greater than all that”. And it is. We only have to contemplate (for two only) The Incarnation and The Death of Jesus on the cross.
Pride is an insidious and continual temptation, and it might be sometimes easier to think that perhaps God had not given us sufficient Grace to avoid giving in to temptation and failing and therefore, we can put the blame on God (or try to!). Sometimes it is not so easy to humbly and with sorrow repent owning fully and totally our own and every failure and sin and ask humbly His Divine Loving Mercy - which is always offered and granted Lovingly and with Divine Compassion - and without fail. But we have to ask for it since our will is free. It has been said that God, Who created us without our permission, cannot save us without it. Our will is completely free.
An account of Roman Crucifixion in the death of Jesus (warning - it is very graphic). It comes from Catholic Culture and a reliable Catholic resource and has been researched and written by various experts in their field: catholicculture.org/culture/liturgicalyear/overviews/seasons/lent/passion1.cfm
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TRH1292
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No. It has nothing to do with the modern world.
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COPLAND_3
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I struggle with a concept that I know is only because I fail to understand something that’s more than my little pee-brain can understand and not a result of anything lacking in God’s ways. But God knowing that man was going to fail so miserably then why didn’t He create humans to be better and avoid all this mess. I get so tired of making the same mistakes every time I turn around and struggling with the same old flesh. I know that itd a failure on my part but I really wish becoming a slave to sin was something that God could have designed differently in our design. Just a thought.
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mikekle
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Ive heard pretty often that God will not give anyone more than they can handle, but I have always found this to be false, there have been alot of people, going back many many years that ended up committing suicide, proving they could not take anymore, for whatever reasons they had, it was clear to them, in their mind, there was only 1 way out…so, in these cases, it seems God did give them more than they could handle.
Im not sure who started that saying or where they got it from though.
Im not sure who started that saying or where they got it from though.
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COPLAND_3
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That saying does have a basis in Scripture but I think many people misunderstand the actual intention of that saying. I believe it is obvious that some people get handed things in their life that takes them out of this world either through something like a heart attack or something that causes them to have a mental breakdown and fall apart. There are many things that people have come up with that really get on my nerves, especially when some thing happens to somebody innocent that is so terrible and then somebody will say something ridiculous like “well God had a reason.” Some of these ridiculous interpretations and sayings I believe misrepresent God and are stumbling blocks for others
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gwarald
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If, by fail, you mean sin, then the problem is not with the sufficiency of God’s grace, but with our failure to believe it is so. Whenever we fail to depend on God, we are in danger of committing great sin.
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Richca
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God’s grace is sufficient but He does not force our will otherwise we wouldn’t have free will. We can resist or not resist His grace. Sometimes He permits us to fail so that we may learn to trust in Him more and to grow in humility and to curb our pride.
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Richca
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The fact is that God does have a reason for every event that happens in His creation. He governs the world through His infinite wisdom, justice and goodness and by His infinite power and will. As scripture says, His thoughts are not our thoughts nor are His ways our ways. If we think otherwise, then that is denying that God governs the world by His providence which is against Holy Scripture and our faith.
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ynotzap
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When St. Paul was harassed by the thorn in his flesh ( possibly a devil causing him pain in some way) Paul asked God to relief him of this pain. He asked God repeatedly for relief. This condition was given to him to keep him humble because Paul saw things Heavenly that others didn’t and understood more that others didn’t God blessed him spiritually. Human nature being what it is could easily become proud. God said that His grace was sufficient for Paul, that he could endure, even though he felt like he couldn’t endure the trial. Of course we know that Paul did indeed endure all of his trials with the help of God’s grace. God does give us thorns in our flesh that humble us, especially if we are gifted by the Holy Spirit, it keeps us humble.
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georgemiller
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The answers thus far don’t seem to address the issue or reality of God’s grace being sufficient!
If a person using his or her free will tells God through abundant prayer, love of neighbor and frequent use of the sacraments to help him avoid grave sin but still ends up committing grave sin, as so many do, then how can one always seeking to grow abundantly in God’s grace still end up in grave sin? If God’s grace is sufficient then it would seem that the vast majority of Christians would avoid grave sin. But that is not the reality to so many, even religious, and I am sure as a result a source of much frustration.
I guess what I am trying to reconcile is the reality of sin even to so many who earnestly seek to avoid sin. It would seem that if God’s grace is sufficient than the vast majority would be able to witness to that reality but that clearly is not the case. Ask any priest if you need further confirmation of that reality.
If a person using his or her free will tells God through abundant prayer, love of neighbor and frequent use of the sacraments to help him avoid grave sin but still ends up committing grave sin, as so many do, then how can one always seeking to grow abundantly in God’s grace still end up in grave sin? If God’s grace is sufficient then it would seem that the vast majority of Christians would avoid grave sin. But that is not the reality to so many, even religious, and I am sure as a result a source of much frustration.
I guess what I am trying to reconcile is the reality of sin even to so many who earnestly seek to avoid sin. It would seem that if God’s grace is sufficient than the vast majority would be able to witness to that reality but that clearly is not the case. Ask any priest if you need further confirmation of that reality.
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TiggerS
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God’s Grace is always more than sufficient to any temptation whatsoever. If a person who is truly striving to love God and neighbour falls into serious sin, this speaks to the weakness of our human nature and to never be too confident in oneself - ever! - and think that serious sin is impossible. Not ever. It does not and cannot speak to a lack of God’s Gratuitous and Abundant Gift of His Grace at all times in all circumstances.
It is a problem, I think, of wanting to shift blame off oneself onto something else…and in this case, to shift blame onto The Lord for not granting sufficient Grace. It is a problem of a lack of self knowledge and humility and not owning one’s own sinfulness and one’s fallen human nature and its’ capabilities.
No such thing this side of eternity as being beyond serious sin and no matter how good a life one has been living for how long.
See my post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11827397&postcount=5
Going offline until after Easter - and hope to catchup with things then
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georgemiller
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No one, including me, is trying to shift blame onto God for serious sin. The issue for me is a proper understanding of God’s grace being sufficient. If God said, tomorrow will be a good day for fishing, I am sure the vast majority of fishermen woould be able to witness that reality. Now , if God says that His grace is sufficient I would think the vast majority of Christians seeking to live the Will of God would be able to also witness that reality. I see no such witnessing of that reality. What I do see is a lot of Christians faithfully seeking to live the Will of God occassionaly slipping back into seriously sin. So, I am wondering, in the absence of an specific official teaching on this scripture, if a more proper understanding of this Scripture might be that God’s grace is sufficient for all those who persevere in seeking to do God’s will. And that sufficiency of grace may not always keep one from serious sin but will, if one perseveres in trying to live the will of God , led them to eternity life.
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COPLAND_3
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The point I am making is when something like a child gets raped and brutally murdered that has nothing to do with God having a reason for it. Things like that is the result of people abusing free will and evil in this world, not God.
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georgemiller
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To shift blame for sin onto someone else especially God would indeed be a grave sin. No one is trying to do that. The issue is this, if God’s grace is sufficient to avoid all serious sin then we do we have so much serious sin even for those who are earnestly seeking to live the will of God. If God said tomorrow will be a good fishing day, I am sure there would be a whole lot of witnessing to that reality by all whogo fishing tomorrow. I don’t see that kind of witnessing in Christians trying to avoid sin based on God saying His grace is sufficient. If anything , I see the opposite. So, in the absence of a speicific Church teaching position on this scripture maybe the more proper understanding is that for one who perseveres in seeking the will of God through prayer, repentance, love and the sacraments one will gain eternal life with God through the grace of God A grace that is truly sufficient in all regards relative to gaining eternal life with God and family of God. That is a position I have seen an abundance of Christian witnessing. In any case, thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)uts and God bless you all.
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Biggie
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I get you completely on this, and in some situations in life, at least for me, some of what we say sounds a lot like platitudes.
I do think, of course, God is active in the world and in my life, and God has plans I cannot understand. But I also think I’m at war in this world. The battlefield is internal, the battle is fierce, and because of conditions I am in a forward position. Sometimes I get reinforcement and sometimes not. When not, I can accept there is perhaps a larger reason.
This isn’t going to sound right, but sometimes I think the reason God insists we forgive is that he knows we must first forgive him. Not that God has done anything wrong, but I think he must know from a human perspective we sometimes feel wronged and abandoned by God. And in the greatest tragedies in my life, I have had to think, “OK God, I forgive you. You don’t need to explain it to me. I trust you. Now let’s get on with it.”
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ynotzap
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