2 Deep PRO-LIFE Questions from an atheist

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Hello everyone,

An atheist asked me to answer these two questions below concerning PRO-LIFE.
He is ready to tear apart any simple answer.

If you have time, can you please read his questions below and let me know how you would respond.
As for me, one immediate thought that comes to mind is that if NASA found any sign of life on another planet such as an embryo, it would do all it could to preserve that life.

Here are his questions below:

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The 64 trillion dollar question is WHEN. From what point do you consider it a baby? I ask you a very simple question and I expect a very simple answer. If a man and a woman have sex right now and they are not using protection, and a doctor somehow can reach to the woman’s egg that has been penetrated by a spermatozoon just now and pulls it out, is it an abortion and thus a murder? In other words, the moment a sperm enters an egg, is it a baby? Now that I am at it, I ask you another question. A doctor takes out an egg from a woman and a single sperm from a man and keeps them in separate containers. He or somebody else then proceeds to insert the sperm into the egg. Not a minute later he or another person comes and puts some liquid on it and kills the cell. Is that an abortion or a murder? PLEASE answer my questions. You will realize that something written 2000 years ago by PEOPLE cannot answer these questions. We need laws and rules but not based on something whose authenticity and veracity are NOT beyond any doubts.​

Thank you and God Bless
Neil
 
Answer his question with a question. Does personhood start at birth? If so, how does that work? Does the birth canal magically bestow personhood? Is a baby born two weeks early a person the killing of which would constitute murder, but a baby conceived on the same night but not yet born is fair game for dismemberment? If you don’t define personhood as beginning at the creating of new and unique genetic code, there is no objective standard that isn’t downright silly.
 
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I’m not sure what the “two” questions are.

When does a baby become a baby?

Is it murder to kill it?

Chuck
 
Those aren’t questions, they are assertions with demands to prove them wrong.

The rebuttal to his assertion that small human beings aren’t human is SCIENCE.
Surely the atheist will give some credence to established science.
 
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the minute the sperm and egg change to a zygote you have a whole new human organism. If the egg and sperm do not change to a zygote then only an egg and a sperm die and this is not an abortion. This is not a biblical statement but one of science. All human organisms are persons, a human zygote is a human organism, therefore a zygote is a person. A person is a person no matter where they are in their development.
 
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In each of the two situations mentioned the result seems to me to be the same. The moment the sperm and ova fuse and the genetic material combine, you have a unique and individual person who is neither of the father or mother. To intentionally kill this is murder.

I’m sure you could be rebuffed with hundreds of “what if’s), but that it at the elemental level.
 
The question is: When does a new human being begin? And the answer is biologically obvious: when the sperm and ovum unite to form a new and genetically distinct human being.

Personhood is not a biological question but a philosophical one. Every human being, at whatever stage of development, is endowed with the aspect of personhood, which can be expressed in more and more detail as the new human being continues to grow to adulthood.
 
Assure your atheist friend that we are praying that he may increase in faith, hope, and love.
 
The only honest assertion the atheist can make in these situations is that the human being is small and helpless, and we should be allowed to kill small and helpless people.

And remind them of the ramifications of this horrific “philosophy”. And you can use accepted history to do that.
 
When does a human start being a human? When it has its human chromosomes. An egg and a sperm each only have half their chromosomes; they have no separate identity. But once the egg is fertilized, you have a unique individual, and it’s just a matter of time and geography before everyone else agrees with you. Some people don’t think humans are humans until x point in gestation. Some people don’t think humans are humans until they’re born. Some people don’t think humans are humans until a certain amount of time after they’re born. Some people don’t think humans are humans until they’ve been born and have reached a particular developmental milestone.

But ultimately, all those other things are just a matter of time and geography. There’s nothing intrinsic that has changed— just that what has already existed is allowed to develop and grow according to natural patterns.

But that path of development begins once you have a complete set of chromosomes.

(Yeah, I know that ignores anyone who has a chromosomal disorder… but y’all know what I’m talking about.)
 
Personhood at conception is based more on science than scripture. The person writing this is under a misconception, and I’m not sure what exactly the objection is.
 
YoungSheldon said:
Why not approach the question from the opposite direction? When does the human being CEASE to be a human being? The simplistic answer is: “at death”. But that only pushes the question “back”. What is death? The answer is: “when the brain’s electro-chemical activity stops”. Following this obvious fact, when does a human being “start” to exist? When the brain’s activity starts. Without a functioning brain all we have is a corpse. Moreover, every part of the body can be replaced by a transplant or a non-biological prosthesis - except the brain. So it is obvious that we need a functioning brain to designate a being to be a “human being”.

Q.E.D.
Click to expand...
So nothing that lacks a brain is alive? Big if true.
 
Perhaps you should invest in Randy Alcorn’s book Pro Life Answers to Pro Choice Arguments,
Second Edition.

Because if you can’t answer the question yourself you shouldn’t be debating the issue.

Life begins at conception, and yes both scenarios involve taking the life of a preborn person.

Donum Vitae and Dignitas Personae are two documents dealing with in vitro (which is what is described in your example).
 
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vsedriver said:
the minute the sperm and egg change to a zygote you have a whole new human organism. If the egg and sperm do not change to a zygote then only an egg and a sperm die and this is not an abortion. This is not a biblical statement but one of science. All human organisms are persons, a human zygote is a human organism, therefore a zygote is a person. A person is a person no matter where they are in their development.
Click to expand...
Precisely. The answer to his question is scientific not religious.
 
naylordaisy said:
The 64 trillion dollar question is WHEN. From what point do you consider it a baby? I ask you a very simple question and I expect a very simple answer. If a man and a woman have sex right now and they are not using protection, and a doctor somehow can reach to the woman’s egg that has been penetrated by a spermatozoon just now and pulls it out, is it an abortion and thus a murder?
Click to expand...
Yes. The arrested development of an embryo is an abortion. Murder is usually a legal term but to kill inhumanly is one of the definitions as well so, yes.

“In other words, the moment a sperm enters an egg, is it a baby?”""
It is a human being that is alive. The real question is should this human have human rights?

“”“Now that I am at it, I ask you another question. A doctor takes out an egg from a woman and a single sperm from a man and keeps them in separate containers. He or somebody else then proceeds to insert the sperm into the egg. Not a minute later he or another person comes and puts some liquid on it and kills the cell. Is that an abortion or a murder?”""
Same answers.

This might help give you some points in this discussion…

 
  1. I would not emphasize “baby,” I would emphasize “human”
  2. The answer is scientifically simple and was taught to all of us in biology class (unless millennials stopped receiving that education). A sperm cell has 1/2 of human DNA and the Egg has another 1/2 of human DNA. When the two combine they create an organism with 100% human DNA.
That is SCIENTIFICALLY when a human organism comes into existence, once it has human DNA. In other words, any organism with human DNA is a human begin.

And before they argue that sperm and egg are human, cells are not always organisms. But all humans start their lives as a single cell organism before out cells start dividing and multiplying to build our organs, etc.

Keep it scientific with the atheist and stay away from religion and only use philosophy when needed.

I hope this helps.

God Bless
 
I wouldn’t argue with him. You aren’t going to change his mind and he will make you mad. Instead, say a prayer that he will adopt a Christian understanding of the issue, if that is your objective.
 
He may be pursuaded with some rational arguments. And, most of the time in online discussions, the onlookers are more important than the person that the information is directed at.
 
I know sometimes the atheist is living in the same house as us, so it can be tough.
If there’s some hostility toward people 2000 years ago (because Christ came and established His church back then) just reply with a smile that at least back then, when a woman was pregnant, they knew she was having a baby.

God bless and help you defend the unborn.
 
yes indeed goout, your assessment of the nature of the atheist’s intent is quite accurate. He is very combative and is looking to blow apart any rebuttal. I came to this forum to seek advice that can include any additional points that I myself may not have thought about. In this case, I had been defending the Covington Catholic school kids and separately PRO-Life in relation to governor Cuomo’s signing of the barbaric abortion law this week in New York. He and two others attacked my position and went further to include personal attacks on my character and on Christianity in general. I responded calmly and told them I loved them and prayed for them as they are children of God. He responded with the above two questions (and somewhat softened his aggressiveness) but of course he is looking to ‘prove’ Christianity is backward etc. So thank you and everyone here for your advice.
 
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