2 Liturgy of the Hours questions

[Luigi_Daniele]

Pretty sure this belongs in here. If not, my apologies.

I have 2 questions as to official Roman Catholic private use of the LotH (ie, at home, by myself)

1. Am I allowed to add my own intercessions during the Intercessions part and still have the LotH praying “count”?
2. Am I required to read the Psalm-Prayer that appears after some of the Psalms, ie, if I do not does my LotH praying “count”?

I am interested in the official Church teaching on this (if any), not private opinion*

*I do not mean that to sound “in your face” in any way, OK?

 

[Catholicben]

Pretty sure this belongs in here. If not, my apologies.

Don’t worry. It does.

I have 2 questions as to official Roman Catholic private use of the LotH (ie, at home, by myself)

1. Am I allowed to add my own intercessions during the Intercessions part and still have the LotH praying “count”?

Not sure. I would guess no, but don’t count on it.

1. Am I required to read the Psalm-Prayer that appears after some of the Psalms, ie, if I do not does my LotH praying “count”?

I am almost sure that you do not have to read the Psalm-Prayer ever, even in public recitation.

*I do not mean that to sound “in your face” in any way, OK?

Don’t worry about it. I know where you are coming from.

 

[OraLabora]

In answer to the first question, yes you can add your own intentions to the intercessions. I always do, for close friends who are ill, my family, my monastic community, new vocations for the community, etc. I do them silently but you can always try to compose your own.

For the second question, you’re not obliged to pray the psalm-prayer whether you’re a layman or a cleric. Some editions (my French LOH for instance, and for that matter, my Latin Editio Typica Altera) don’t have them.

For the references, from the General Instructions for the Liturgy of the Hours:

1. Psalm-prayers for each psalm are given in the supplement to The Liturgy of the Hours as an aid to understanding them in a predominantly Christian way. An ancient tradition provides a model for their use: after the psalm a period of silence is observed, then the prayer gives a resume and resolution of the thoughts and aspirations of those praying the psalms.

So as you can see, they are an aid, and included in a supplement. My monastic community never uses them even though they are in their monastic breviary.

On intercessions:

1. It is permissible, however, to include particular intentions at both morning prayer and evening prayer.

So yes, you can add your own intentions.

Here’s a good on-line reference:

General Instructions of the Liturgy of the Hours

God bless, I am a big fan of the LOH and happy that you find spiritual nourishment in this prayer. At times when prayer comes hard for me, the LOH allows me to rely on the prayer of others to carry my weak prayer. And the routine always brings me back when I stray.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

In answer to the first question, yes you can add your own intentions to the intercessions. I always do, for close friends who are ill, my family, my monastic community, new vocations for the community, etc. I do them silently but you can always try to compose your own.

That’s how I do them, too

For the second question, you’re not obliged to pray the psalm-prayer whether you’re a layman or a cleric. Some editions (my French LOH for instance, and for that matter, my Latin Editio Typica Altera) don’t have them.

For the references, from the General Instructions for the Liturgy of the Hours:

So as you can see, they are an aid, and included in a supplement. My monastic community never uses them even though they are in their monastic breviary.

This makes me feel better. I only like a couple of them, TBH. It is those couple that make me wonder every time I pass them by

General Instructions of the Liturgy of the Hours

Bookmarked

God bless, I am a big fan of the LOH and happy that you find spiritual nourishment in this prayer. At times when prayer comes hard for me, the LOH allows me to rely on the prayer of others to carry my weak prayer. And the routine always brings me back when I stray.

And God bless you, brother, for clearing this up for me. It is truly appreciated.

I, too, am a huge fan. I pray Morning, Evening and Night and just love them. Exactly!

Thanks so much

PS Now if I can figure out how to do lectio divina

 

[OraLabora]

PS Now if I can figure out how to do lectio divina

When you figure that one out, please let me know, because I’ve yet to figure it out myself…

I do the hours like you do, and I also do Office of Readings as Vigils, very early in the morning (often in bed before I get up). After I read that, I read the day’s Gospel reading for Mass, the daily reading of the Rule of St. Benedict with commentary, and an extract from the Martyrology for the day. After I do all that, I head into Lauds.

I try to make the Gospel reading into my lectio divina. With decidedly mixed results…

I’m actually trying to reorganize my day on the Monastic style: Vigils very early in the morning (just after 5 am), followed by a brief break, then Lauds, then my other readings and lectio. That was the sequence in summer, I think in winter, Lauds came later due to the later sunrise and Lauds was supposed to be at dawn.

The monastic day used to be regulated by daylight, and of course that varied considerably with the seasons. Doing Vigils when it’s still dark outside, and Lauds at sunrise, and Vespers at sunset, just seems so… right. But it makes for very short summer sleep hours, so I can see why monks had an afternoon siesta.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Does anyone know who actually composed the intercessions and psalm-prayers for the current edition of the LOTH in English?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I read the day’s Gospel reading for Mass, the daily reading of the Rule of St. Benedict…, and an extract from the Martyrology for the day.
I try to make the Gospel reading into my lectio divina. With decidedly mixed results…

This is exactly what I do. And the Angelus at noon.

 

[Evan]

1. Am I allowed to add my own intercessions during the Intercessions part and still have the LotH praying “count”?

We were told the proper place for your personal intentions, in Morning Prayer, is after all the official ones have been prayed for (those listed in the LOTH).

However in evening prayer, they should be included just prior to the last intention. The last intention is ALWAYS for those who have died and that is always the last one on the official LOTH list of intentions.

At least that’s the Carmelite way

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

We were told the proper place for your personal intentions, in Morning Prayer, is after all the official ones have been prayed for (those listed in the LOTH).

However in evening prayer, they should be included just prior to the last intention. The last intention is ALWAYS for those who have died and that is always the last one on the official LOTH list of intentions.

At least that’s the Carmelite way

Thanks.

I end up with a prayer for the dead always. I do the rest all over the place, though

Well, OK…mine, then the written ones, then mine

 

[OraLabora]

We were told the proper place for your personal intentions, in Morning Prayer, is after all the official ones have been prayed for (those listed in the LOTH).

However in evening prayer, they should be included just prior to the last intention. The last intention is ALWAYS for those who have died and that is always the last one on the official LOTH list of intentions.

At least that’s the Carmelite way

Technically that’s probably true; the Latin LOH doesn’t specify (at each intercession) but the French LOH does place the mention “free intentions” after the prayer for the dead.

The General Instructions don’t actually specify it. So it is probably a Carmelite tradition. For the Benedictines, there is a brief silence after all the intercessions.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Technically that’s probably true; the Latin LOH doesn’t specify (at each intercession) but the French LOH does place the mention “free intentions” after the prayer for the dead.

The General Instructions don’t actually specify it. So it is probably a Carmelite tradition. For the Benedictines, there is a brief silence after all the intercessions.

So that is where we would add our own (ie, after having prayed the written ones)?

 

[OraLabora]

So that is where we would add our own (ie, after having prayed the written ones)?

If one takes it as it is written, at least in the French LOH. Neither my Latin version, nor my English 1-vol. Christian Prayer specifies it.

I’ve been doing it at the end.

Incidentally in the Benedictine tradition, there is the prayers and responses:

V/. Dívinum auxílium máneat semper nobíscum.
R/. Et cum frátribus nostris abséntibus. Amen

for absent brothers and

V/. Fidélium ánimæ per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace.
R/. Amen.

(may the souls of the dead, by the Mercy of God, rest in peace, amen)
for the dead after, after the final blessing of the Office.

 

[curlycool89]

Does anyone know who actually composed the intercessions and psalm-prayers for the current edition of the LOTH in English?

Don’t quote me on it, but I think the intercessions are translated from the Latin (so the Vatican wrote them), and the psalm-prayers would have been added by the ICEL (probably).

 

[OraLabora]

Don’t quote me on it, but I think the intercessions are translated from the Latin (so the Vatican wrote them), and the psalm-prayers would have been added by the ICEL (probably).

There are French psalm-prayers in my French monastic Liturgy of the Hours as well (according to Benedictine Schema B).

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

If one takes it as it is written, at least in the French LOH. Neither my Latin version, nor my English 1-vol. Christian Prayer specifies it.

I’ve been doing it at the end.

Incidentally in the Benedictine tradition, there is the prayers and responses:

V/. Dívinum auxílium máneat semper nobíscum.
R/. Et cum frátribus nostris abséntibus. Amen

for absent brothers and

V/. Fidélium ánimæ per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace.
R/. Amen.

(may the souls of the dead, by the Mercy of God, rest in peace, amen)
for the dead after, after the final blessing of the Office.

Thanks fratello:thumbsup:

 

[MarkThompson]

If one takes it as it is written, at least in the French LOH. Neither my Latin version, nor my English 1-vol. Christian Prayer specifies it.

I’ve been doing it at the end.

Incidentally in the Benedictine tradition, there is the prayers and responses:

V/. Dívinum auxílium máneat semper nobíscum.
R/. Et cum frátribus nostris abséntibus. Amen

for absent brothers and

V/. Fidélium ánimæ per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace.
R/. Amen.

(may the souls of the dead, by the Mercy of God, rest in peace, amen)
for the dead after, after the final blessing of the Office.

The souls of the faithful, actually.

I do like the prayer for “our absent brothers.” Why can’t I stop envisioning pouring one out for the homies?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[curlycool89]

There are French psalm-prayers in my French monastic Liturgy of the Hours as well (according to Benedictine Schema B).

Maybe they collaborated then? I may be wrong, but I don’t think that they’re in the editio typica.

I honestly don’t know then.

 

[OraLabora]

The souls of the faithful, actually.

I do like the prayer for “our absent brothers.” Why can’t I stop envisioning pouring one out for the homies?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2007/04/pour-one-out.jpg

I’m more used to hearing it in French as it’s only used at the little hours at our abbey, and those are done in French (Lauds and Vespers are in Latin), and we say in French: “que par la miséricorde de Dieu, les âmes des fidèles défunts reposent en paix”

which translates to “by the mercy of God may the souls of the deceased faithful rest in peace”.

Just goes to show how inexact an art translation is

Maybe they collaborated then? I may be wrong, but I don’t think that they’re in the editio typica.

I honestly don’t know then.

No, they’re definitely not in the Editio Typica of which I have a set. I have no idea where they came from, but they were discussed a fair bit in the process of reform of the Liturgy of the Hours.

I suggest one reads “From Breviary to Liturgy of the Hours” for a exposé on how the current Liturgy of the Hours came about. It talks about the psalm prayers. They’re probably in the Thesaurus if not in the Editio Typica.

 

[Evan]

Technically that’s probably true; the Latin LOH doesn’t specify (at each intercession) but the French LOH does place the mention “free intentions” after the prayer for the dead.

The General Instructions don’t actually specify it. So it is probably a Carmelite tradition. For the Benedictines, there is a brief silence after all the intercessions.

The General Instructions, Paragraph 186 ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwgilh.htm#Ch%20III-IX ]

1. In the intercessions at evening prayer the last intention is always for the dead.

So I think it may be a tradition for the Benedictines My wife (a Camelite) pointed out the paragraph last night. I can’t take credit. Of course, we all know wives are saints: :getholy:

 

[OraLabora]

The General Instructions, Paragraph 186 ewtn.com/library/curia/cdwgilh.htm#Ch%20III-IX ]

So I think it may be a tradition for the Benedictines My wife (a Camelite) pointed out the paragraph last night. I can’t take credit. Of course, we all know wives are saints: :getholy:

I think the guy(s) who edited my French LOH mustn’t have a wife to point out their goofs . The rubric indicates personal intentions after prayer for the dead.

Most personal intentions are done silently, in the silence between the last intention and the Kyrie (for the monastic office), or the Pater Noster (for the Roman office).

The Benedictine prayer for the dead, incidentally, was not in the intercessions, traditionally, but after the final blessing, followed also by prayer for absent brothers. It is still retained for the Little Hours and Vigils, but is not used at Lauds and Vespers.