2 Thessalonians 2:5-6

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Who or what is this mysterious power who holds this champion of wickedness in check?
 
Could the answer be found in Daniel 10: 13, 21; Daniel 12:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and Revelation 12: 7-9?

As an aside, 2 Thessalonians 2: 5-6 is an excellent refutation of Sola Scriptura.
 
For those like myself who have to look up passages because we don’t have them memorized 😉 …and for context:

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.[a] 3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness**[c] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.** 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.**** 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.[d] 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, 12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Thess 2:1-12, RSV-CE, emphasis on verses in OP)
 
Daniel 10:13, 21

13The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, so I left him there with the prince of the kingdom of Persia…21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince.

Daniel 12:1

“At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, every one whose name shall be found written in the book.

1Thess 4:16

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first;

Rev 12:7-9

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
 
Tomster said:
As an aside, 2 Thessalonians 2: 5-6 is an excellent refutation of Sola Scriptura.
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Hey Tomster, I’d be interested in your elaboration on this subject. The verse in question seems to me to bring nothing to mind on this matter.

Thanks.
 
Traverse said:
Hey Tomster, I’d be interested in your elaboration on this subject. The verse in question seems to me to bring nothing to mind on this matter.

Thanks.
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Jump to verse 14 and read it in context of the whole of chapter 2.

After all this doom and gloom, he implores the Thessolonians to hold fast to traditions learned, either by word or epistle.

What is this? Paul letting them know that in this life and death situation, there is more than just what is written? That the Thessolonians would do well to follow both the written word and traditions? Hmmmmmm.
 
Tomster said:
Who or what is this mysterious power who holds this champion of wickedness in check?
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The Gospel. Once the Gospel becomes ineffective on peoples lives, and people become almost immune to its saving graces, then …
 
concretecamper said:
Jump to verse 14 and read it in context of the whole of chapter 2.

After all this doom and gloom, he implores the Thessolonians to hold fast to traditions learned, either by word or epistle.

What is this? Paul letting them know that in this life and death situation, there is more than just what is written? That the Thessolonians would do well to follow both the written word and traditions? Hmmmmmm.
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I don’t see how it that refutes the practice of sola scriptura.
Jon
 
JonNC said:
I don’t see how it that refutes the practice of sola scriptura.
Jon
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“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”

To Paul in this chapter, is there a difference between word or epistle?
 
concretecamper said:
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”

To Paul in this chapter, is there a difference between word or epistle?
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Problem with many SS advocates they believe the Word of God is binded to written words alone.
 
concretecamper said:
“Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.”

To Paul in this chapter, is there a difference between word or epistle?
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Written and oral. My point is that this does not refute sola scriptura. Sola scriptura doesn’t exclude or prohibit traditions or Tradition. Nor does it miss the fact that the written word is the result of the oral word.
As a sola scripturist I would say Amen, and there should be no variance between oral and written in terms of what binds the conscience of the believer.

Jon
 
Nicea325 said:
Problem with many SS advocates they believe the Word of God is binded to written words alone.
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And they shouldn’t. But in light of the disagreements going back a thousand years on what Tradition teaches, it makes sense to bind the conscience of the believer to that which is confirmed in the written word, allowing Tradition to be a witness to this truth.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
As a sola scripturist I would say Amen, and there should be no variance between oral and written in terms of what binds the conscience of the believer.

Jon
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So, a sola scripturist should be able to accept some oral tradition since the written may not be able to refute it. Or are you really saying it must be confirmed by the written part of the Tradition which really mean Bible Alone. Which brings us back to Paul…who give does not give more weight to one or the other.
 
concretecamper said:
Jump to verse 14 and read it in context of the whole of chapter 2.

After all this doom and gloom, he implores the Thessolonians to hold fast to traditions learned, either by word or epistle.

What is this? Paul letting them know that in this life and death situation, there is more than just what is written? That the Thessolonians would do well to follow both the written word and traditions? Hmmmmmm.
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Additionally , in verse 6, St. Paul never named who or what the restraining force is. He told the Thessalonians who the force was orally beforehand but, again, never specifically identified the force in writing. A classic example of oral Tradition.

The Church, Christ’s Mystical Body on earth, has never infallibly identified who this withholding force is. There has been a whole lot of speculation regarding who this force is down through the centuries, the Church Fathers included.

Since the Church has never infallibly defined who or what this force is, the topic is open for discussion. My personal take is that the force is in fact the Mystical Body of Christ, the Church, with Christ the Head. St. Michael the Archangel, being part of Christ’s Mystical Body, has been entrusted down through the ages with leading the charge against the lawless one.

It would be well for all of us to examine the doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ that Saul received on the Damascus road. This doctrine was a direct revelation given to Saul by God Himself. St. Paul’s epistles are saturated with this doctrine. A good starting point for reflection would be the question posed to Saul by the crucified, risen and then ascended and majestic Lord, “Saul, Saul, why do thou persecute Me?”
 
concretecamper said:
So, a sola scripturist should be able to accept some oral tradition since the written may not be able to refute it. Or are you really saying it must be confirmed by the written part of the Tradition which really mean Bible Alone. Which brings us back to Paul…who give does not give more weight to one or the other.
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Just a little reminder c.c.

When discussing sola scriptura with a non-Catholic bear in mind that those who believe in sola scriptura are forced to acknowledge that they are dealing with an infallible group of books, the Bible. In order to interpret the Bible, the infallible Word of God, it takes an infallible interpreter. Nothing else will do.

Sola scripturists have reserved for themselves, individually, the right to interpret the infallible Bible thereby claiming a certain infallibility for themselves, individually. They, therefore, individually, or in conjunction with the particular cult they choose to associate with, put forth their own oral traditions which they believe to be infallible. It is ironic that when they are asked if their own spin on particular scripture passages are correct, they will insist that they are all the while saying that they as individuals or as a group are not infallible.

I think you can see where this eventually leads.
 
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