20 Truths about Mormons

[why_me]

Mormonism, with its bizarre claims about pre-Columbian American history, its emphasis on emotionally-based claims to truth, and the repressive social controls, and a watered-down sense of sacramentaality, has no such balance.

He is right, in some sense, about anti-Mormon web-sites.

Now, Jerusha, lets be honest here. I know of many catholics who left the church because of the guilt complex that the catholic church instilled in them. At least that has been their excuse and this could be equaled with your so called social control. The lds faith and the catholic faith both exert ‘control’ through their doctrine and catechisms. But this is not necessarily a bad thing since it shows that both churches recognize just what it means to live a godly or holy life. And as far as I know it, the catholic faith has much more to observe throughout its calender than the lds church and if not observed, it could be a sin. .

 

[why_me]

I think you need to be kinder, however, to “why me”.

He is right, in some sense, about anti-Mormon web-sites.

I always like kindness.

And not only am I right about the anti-mormon sites, I am also right about the anti-catholic sites unless of course, you want to share with us all a very balanced anti-catholic site?

 

[isaac.madsen]

The discussion is based on a website (trialsofascension.net/mormon.html).

I would rather see short quotations from the article and evidence from other resources as to the accuracy of the statements. In this way, we will be discussing not so much whether or not the church is true, but rather what is true about the church’s origins and doctrines, both past and present. Try to keep to topics within the 20 Truths and related items listed:

Introduction
1. Book of Abraham
2. Kinderhook Plates
3. Plagiarism
4. Polygamy
5. Emotionality
6. Changing Doctrine
7. False Prophecies
8. Lying for the Lord
9. Treasure Hunt
10. Blood Atonement
11. Vain Ambitions
12. Defections
13. BOM Changes
14. BOM Population
15. Lamanite DNA
16. Critics Squelched
17. Black Prejudice
18. Nephi or Moroni?
19. Archeology
20. First Vision
Observations
My Story
Resources

Again, this is not so much about whether the church is true, but rather what is true about it’s history.

I think we’re straying a little off topic, so I just thought I’d remind you good folks of this above post.

 

[christianley]

I think we’re straying a little off topic, so I just thought I’d remind you good folks of this above post.

The problem with this is almost all of these topics would require separate threads. To try to lump them all into one thread is almost impossible. And several of them (DNA and population size for example) depend on whether or not you are willing to buy into the Limited Geographic Theory as the Mormon excuse for problems found in the Book of Mormon.

 

[isaac.madsen]

The problem with this is almost all of these topics would require separate threads. To try to lump them all into one thread is almost impossible. And several of them (DNA and population size for example) depend on whether or not you are willing to buy into the Limited Geographic Theory as the Mormon excuse for problems found in the Book of Mormon.

Well perhaps we can just focus on the Observations link then?

 

[christianley]

Well perhaps we can just focus on the Observations link then?

It looks like the author has chosen the path of so many who leave the Mormon Church – the author seems to have given up on faith entirely. As for his observations about the Mormon Church, it really doesn’t take a brain surgeon to determine the LDS Church has real problems with the history of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon in particular.

I quote: “I don’t know the answer to the question about Joseph’s sincerity, but the implications are the same in either case: the facts deny the absolute authority and doctrinal integrity of the church which he founded. Are there still benefits to be derived from Mormonism? I think so, but there are also pitfalls. I no longer believe the Mormon church’s claim that exaltation can only be achieved through its precepts and ordinances. And I cannot with integrity belong to such a church, given the facts discussed here.”

That is the conclusion I arrived at about 15 years ago. I never lost my faith in Christ and it took me a number of years for the Spirit to lead me to Catholicism after years of searching in both liberal and evangelical Protestantism. The facts don’t seem to me to be on the side of Mormonism’s version of the gospel. We are all at different stages in our faith life and I do believe that ultimately God will bring people who trust in Christ to the place where they should be.

 

[isaac.madsen]

That is the conclusion I arrived at about 15 years ago. I never lost my faith in Christ and it took me a number of years for the Spirit to lead me to Catholicism after years of searching in both liberal and evangelical Protestantism. The facts don’t seem to me to be on the side of Mormonism’s version of the gospel. We are all at different stages in our faith life and I do believe that ultimately God will bring people who trust in Christ to the place where they should be.

I also came to the same conclusion, though it has not led me to Catholicism (though it has certainly led me to investigate). My belief is that what you believe in becomes the initial “world” you arrive in after this life. I base this not on scripture necessarily, but on historical evidence of thousands, if not millions, of personal accounts I have read and heart from various sources. I tend to be a “look at the big picture” sort of person and what I see are a lot of people earnestly seeking the same thing - true joy - and I believe that God will give them every chance to find it, whether it be in this life or the next.

 

[Allweather]

I also came to the same conclusion, though it has not led me to Catholicism (though it has certainly led me to investigate). My belief is that what you believe in becomes the initial “world” you arrive in after this life. I base this not on scripture necessarily, but on historical evidence of thousands, if not millions, of personal accounts I have read and heart from various sources. I tend to be a “look at the big picture” sort of person and what I see are a lot of people earnestly seeking the same thing - true joy - and I believe that God will give them every chance to find it, whether it be in this life or the next.

You may be heading farther away from Christianity rather than closer to it. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

 

[deb1024]

I also came to the same conclusion, though it has not led me to Catholicism (though it has certainly led me to investigate). My belief is that what you believe in becomes the initial “world” you arrive in after this life. I base this not on scripture necessarily, but on historical evidence of thousands, if not millions, of personal accounts I have read and heart from various sources. I tend to be a “look at the big picture” sort of person and what I see are a lot of people earnestly seeking the same thing - true joy - and I believe that God will give them every chance to find it, whether it be in this life or the next

Isaac, have you ever read the book To Hell and Back. By Maurice S. Rawlings, M.D.? It is about many people who have a near death experience and find themselves in hell. It is a very interesting book.

 

[isaac.madsen]

Isaac, have you ever read the book To Hell and Back. By Maurice S. Rawlings, M.D.? It is about many people who have a near death experience and find themselves in hell. It is a very interesting book.

I haven’t read that particular book, but I’ll take a look if I can find a copy. That’s the sort of thing I was talking about though. I’ve had a few experiences of my own related to that, but I feel less comfortable posting them on this board than on others because I my opinions tend to receive more respectful analysis on other boards. I find it unfortunate, but that means this board may miss out on whatever I may have to share in that regard.

 

[isaac.madsen]

You may be heading farther away from Christianity rather than closer to it. Out of the frying pan and into the fire?

Perhaps so, but I doubt it. I only believe in and worship one God, if that’s what you’re worried about. I can’t be entirely sure what his nature is, but I know that Christ is my savior and that I have an eternal heavenly father, who is the father of all things. I can say little more as I think that is all the knowledge any mortal has.

 

[christianley]

I also came to the same conclusion, though it has not led me to Catholicism (though it has certainly led me to investigate). My belief is that what you believe in becomes the initial “world” you arrive in after this life. I base this not on scripture necessarily, but on historical evidence of thousands, if not millions, of personal accounts I have read and heart from various sources. I tend to be a “look at the big picture” sort of person and what I see are a lot of people earnestly seeking the same thing - true joy - and I believe that God will give them every chance to find it, whether it be in this life or the next.

Ultimately, the salvation Jesus is bringing to people will come about because of the ministry of the Catholic Church. I think if you will pay attention at mass you will see what I mean. The body and blood of Christ are found their – anything else falls short. I urge you to consider seeking and perhaps like me you will find that the Catholic Church is the vehicle through which Christ will save the world.

 

[christianley]

Isaac, have you ever read the book To Hell and Back. By Maurice S. Rawlings, M.D.? It is about many people who have a near death experience and find themselves in hell. It is a very interesting book.

I wonder if anyone really understands what they experience in these near death experiences. I don’t put a lot of faith in them.

 

[deb1024]

I wonder if anyone really understands what they experience in these near death experiences. I don’t put a lot of faith in them.

I think that some of them can be dreams that are caused by being so close to death. These dreams seem to bring everyone to what they believe they will find after death.
But some, I believe are real. I read one book about the near death experiences of children and that was very Christian, very Catholic, even though the author was a nonbeliever. The book about people who went to hell was very believable because some of the people were the type who were so sure they would go to heaven.

Our faith should not be based on near death experience stories or feelings of any kind. It should be based on truth. God gave us all the desire to love and worship him and he gave us intelligence and the ability to find the truth.

 

[Allweather]

Perhaps so, but I doubt it. I only believe in and worship one God, if that’s what you’re worried about. I can’t be entirely sure what his nature is, but I know that Christ is my savior and that I have an eternal heavenly father, who is the father of all things. I can say little more as I think that is all the knowledge any mortal has.

I only mentioned it because it seems that an awful lot of people leaving religions like Mormonism lose all faith in God and become kind of like atheists. I can understand the devastating effects of realizing that the religion you’ve spent your life defending and promoting is false, and that you’ve led others into that error. In fact, I’ve seen up close the trauma of a person leaving Mormonism after raising her children as Mormons. Really tough stuff.

 

[Allweather]

I think that some of them can be dreams that are caused by being so close to death. These dreams seem to bring everyone to what they believe they will find after death.

A few years ago I listened to a lady speak for about an hour of her near death experience. She was a Christian, and had had an incredibly detailed experience in which she’d seen dead relatives in heaven, could see living people still on Earth, “seen” prayers rising from Earth to Heaven, etc. It was very inspiring.

 

[Jerusha]

I only mentioned it because it seems that an awful lot of people leaving religions like Mormonism lose all faith in God and become kind of like atheists. I can understand the devastating effects of realizing that the religion you’ve spent your life defending and promoting is false, and that you’ve led others into that error.

That is a real concern for me. They leave, carrying the negative aspects of their culture with them, and sometimes end up worse than before. That is one reason why I wrote that article. My mother used to say, " A little bit of information is a dangerous thing." – because it can be so easily misinterpreted. The story is actually inspiring, but so distorted.

 

[deb1024]

Wow, near death experiences, that would make a great thread.

Seriously, We have the scriptures, the writings of the early christians which tell us the Catholic Church is the church instituted by Christ. It has not changed it’s teachings for 2000 years. The Church is Jesus gift to us to aid us in our salvation.

We don’t need emotional experiences to tell us what church is from God or what to believe in. Emotional feelings can be misleading. The evil one can provide visions, dreams or devise certain situations to stimulate emotional experiences.

Our relationship with God often gives us spiritual feelings and emotions and this is icing on the cake, it’s great. We must discern what is from God and what is not.

 

[Allweather]

That is a real concern for me. They leave, carrying the negative aspects of their culture with them, and sometimes end up worse than before. That is one reason why I wrote that article. My mother used to say, " A little bit of information is a dangerous thing." – because it can be so easily misinterpreted. The story is actually inspiring, but so distorted.

I missed the article, Jerusha. Could you repeat the link or tell me where to find it?

 

[Geocacher]

I’m an inactive LDS member, and I remember a few times when I went, when people have gotten up in testimony meetings, and talked about their Near Death Experiences, and I believe that there are alot of people that may have had NDE’s in the Mormon church, and I know that NDE’s are frowned apon in other churches. A Near Death Experience book that had opened my eyes, is The Ripple Effect, by Betty J Eddie. A big eye opener for me.

I have on a number of occations kinda left the LDS church in search of others, and keep bouncing back to the LDS church on occation, still inactive though. Seems like when I do get dragged there to my sister’s LDS ward, that I find myself testifying of the Holy Spirit to the people in the LDS congregation, but still cannot testify that that church is the only TRUE church, and this is the sticking point, in why I’m inactive, and part of this problem, is that I work nites, and no energy afterwards, except those days when I’m full of the holy spirit, and I can keep going on the spirit, even when burned out from work.

I have lived with Cronic Fatigue for several years, and this is my cross to carry.