2008 Should Priest & Bishops be allowed to marry?

[Marsha_Adams]

I consider celibacy to be a vocational litmus test. If a man wants to be a priest and understands that it means he can never marry and STILL wants to be a priest, then he probably has a solid vocation. This is merely my personal opinion.

If priests were permitted to marry, and being good Catholics he and his wife use only natural family planning methods, and have 8 or 9 children, the Church had better increase the salary for priests. Do you really want to call your priest to come give last rites only to be told he’ll be there as soon as he gets off his SECOND job because he can’t feed and clothe his family on what the Church pays him?

Do you really want to go out to Denny’s for dinner and find your priest waiting on your table in order to make ends meet?

What happens when your priest gets a divorce?

How about the scandal when some liberal priest’s wife is seen coming out of an abortion mill?

The practical issues of a married priesthood is a nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[Hesychios]

As I recall, for those who don’t wish to remain celibate ordination is delayed until they can find a wife. I don’t think your seminarian was an anomaly.

This would be correct. At least in Orthodox practice, which the Ukrainians would probably follow.

For the Ruthenians in the USA I am not so sure, since they lost the tradition of married priests for a few decades and are only now reintroducing the practice. They have so few candidates I am not sure they have ever addressed it. The Ruthenians in Europe are different, since their tradition of optional celibacy was not completely interrupted.

Essentially, if celibacy is optional seminarians should be allowed to date up until the time they are ready for ordination, at which point they could decide to make a commitment to celibacy if that is their choice. If the person is convinced that he wants to pursue a married life, the bishop would be wise to wait and give him a chance to sort that part of his life out. Better than letting a good vocation go to waste.

Michael

 

[KathleenElsie]

This would be correct. At least in Orthodox practice, which the Ukrainians would probably follow.

For the Ruthenians in the USA I am not so sure, since they lost the tradition of married priests for a few decades and are only now reintroducing the practice. They have so few candidates I am not sure they have ever addressed it. The Ruthenians in Europe are different, since their tradition of optional celibacy was not completely interrupted.

Essentially, if celibacy is optional seminarians should be allowed to date up until the time they are ready for ordination, at which point they could decide to make a commitment to celibacy if that is their choice. If the person is convinced that he wants to pursue a married life, the bishop would be wise to wait and give him a chance to sort that part of his life out. Better than letting a good vocation go to waste.

Michael

Good post. Commonsense prevails in your reasoning.

 

[Hesychios]

…the Church had better increase the salary for priests.

No kidding.

The Latin Catholic church has the largest parishes overall. Some are astounding in size. I have a friend who is a deacon at a parish with over 20 thousand registered members! The only possible reason a parish like that cannot afford to support the children of a priest would be that Latin Catholics are traditionally notorious cheapskates (sorry for the hard tone, but it needs to be said). Anyone who has sat in the pews a few years and listened to the fundraising appeals knows this to be true.

I know Eastern Catholic and Orthodox parishes of less than two hundred families supporting priests with families. It can be done.

So then, with or without optional celibacy raise the salaries of your priests and do it proudly.

 

[SMHW]

An older thread was reserected (forgive the pun) so I thought a new one would be better. There is a thread that is talking about priestless parishes and this is an off shoot.

Absolutely no way should priests or bishops be allowed to marry.

But as to whether or not married men should be allowed to be priests, that is a whole different matter and deserves its own thread.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

An older thread was reserected (forgive the pun) so I thought a new one would be better. There is a thread that is talking about priestless parishes and this is an off shoot.

I voted yes. It would attract more people to the clergy who are currently sitting on the sidelines.

In today’s modern world, legal safeguards of personal/church property could be easily resolved through a mandatory prenuptial agreement. The spouse would only have rights to the priest’s personal property, not the Church’s.

 

[Digitonomy]

I voted ‘maybe’ because it is for the CHURCH to decide, not for me to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and He makes the decision. . .not us.

Yes, the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. But fallible men make the decision, not the Holy Spirit.

 

[gmoakes]

During an RCIA class a couple of years ago, our Rel Dir was saying that the Eastern church wishes it could require it’s priests to be unmarried. A family complicates the bishop’s life when he needs to transfer a priest to another parish but then the kids wouldn’t want to leave their friends and school, etc. (He also said an Eastern orthodox priest can’t celebrate Mass if he’s had relations with his wife the night before - reason why their churches don’t always have daily Mass :

 

[Tantum_ergo]

But fallible men make the decision, not the Holy Spirit.

You mean they could go against the Spirit? Well, since this is a ‘discipline’ and not dogma or doctrine, it is true. They could ‘ignore the Spirit’. But if they do, (and this is the case with any wrong) God will ‘use’ that wrong and turn it to good.

And again I repeat --it is not for any of us (unless somebody on this thread is somehow going to be involved in the process by being in Holy Orders) to give anything other than an opinion as to why the Church ‘may’ or ‘may not’ choose to permit a married man to become a priest.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

I wanted to vote but your question and your poll are stated differently. No, bishops and priests should not be allowed to marry after ordination. Yes, married men should be allowed to be ordained to the priesthood under some circumstances.

 

[bilop]

No kidding.

The Latin Catholic church has the largest parishes overall. Some are astounding in size. I have a friend who is a deacon at a parish with over 20 thousand registered members! The only possible reason a parish like that cannot afford to support the children of a priest would be that Latin Catholics are traditionally notorious cheapskates (sorry for the hard tone, but it needs to be said). Anyone who has sat in the pews a few years and listened to the fundraising appeals knows this to be true.

I know Eastern Catholic and Orthodox parishes of less than two hundred families supporting priests with families. It can be done.

So then, with or without optional celibacy raise the salaries of your priests and do it proudly.

I think people overestimate the costs of providing for a priest with a family. All priests receive free housing (and there are plenty of big old underused rectories in most dioceses) and health insurance. Most receive free food and a housekeeper. Presumably a priest’s children would get free tuition at the parish school, and I bet you could arrange for free/reduced tuition at the local Catholic colleges (like many dioceses have for college seminarians).

When you eliminate all these costs, a priest should be able to live on a modestly increased salary. After all, we have married Latin Church priests doing so now. The bishop might have to be a little careful in selecting the parishes that could afford the added costs.

God Bless

 

[Hesychios]

During an RCIA class a couple of years ago, our Rel Dir was saying that the Eastern church wishes it could require it’s priests to be unmarried.

I suppose your religious director was an Eastern Catholic.

 

[MadCow1024]

I do not think Priests and Bishops should be allowed to marry after ordination.

I am receptive to married priests, but not bishops, should that discipline be changed.

I do not think allowing married priests would dramatically increase the population of Roman Catholic priests.

 

[Aramis]

Deacons and Priests: only if sacramentally married prior to subdeaconal &/or deaconal ordination.

Bishops: only in converts admitted as part of groups who have married bishops already, and only as an economia for the life of those bishops, to allow integration of that group into the Catholic Church as a Particular Church or even as a Church Sui Iuris.

Now, I’ve no issue at all with widowers as bishops, either. But a Bishop’s job is too much for a man to devote time to wife and a diocese at the same time.

I’m not a fan of the medieval practice of a married bishop-elect putting his wife to a convent or nunnery… It’s gone, and should stay gone.

 

[sseason]

I’m so grateful to God that I belong to a Church that has an authority, guided by the Holy Spirit. So that little ol’ me doesn’t have to choose or make a decision as complex as these.

Thank you God for giving us shepards to lead us little lambs. And for sending us your “Dove” down unto the earth to guide us all.

For this, I am grateful.

~sseason

“The LORD will fight for you; you need only to be still.”

 

[Tsuwano]

I do not think Priests and Bishops should be allowed to marry after ordination.

I am receptive to married priests, but not bishops, should that discipline be changed.

I do not think allowing married priests would dramatically increase the population of Roman Catholic priests.

I’m in agreement with this position.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Deacons and Priests: only if sacramentally married prior to subdeaconal &/or deaconal ordination.

Bishops: only in converts admitted as part of groups who have married bishops already, and only as an economia for the life of those bishops, to allow integration of that group into the Catholic Church as a Particular Church or even as a Church Sui Iuris.

Now, I’ve no issue at all with widowers as bishops, either. But a Bishop’s job is too much for a man to devote time to wife and a diocese at the same time.

I’m not a fan of the medieval practice of a married bishop-elect putting his wife to a convent or nunnery… It’s gone, and should stay gone.

I really liked your thoughts on this issue and agree 100%. Thank you.

 

[Digitonomy]

You mean they could go against the Spirit? Well, since this is a ‘discipline’ and not dogma or doctrine, it is true. They could ‘ignore the Spirit’.

This assumes the Holy Spirit is providing strong guidance on the matter. Considering that East and West have different approaches to this, and there have been changes from time to time just within the Latin Church, it may be this is an issue that for the Holy Spirit ranks up there with whether or not Benedict should be wearing red shoes.
Tantum ergo:

And again I repeat --it is not for any of us… to give anything other than an opinion

That applies to pretty much every thread on this board.

 

[Aramis]

I really liked your thoughts on this issue and agree 100%. Thank you.

It also happens to be Byzantine Tradition, FYI.

 

[Nickkname]

An older thread was reserected (forgive the pun) so I thought a new one would be better. There is a thread that is talking about priestless parishes and this is an off shoot.

If the Church says Priests must be celibrate, than so be it. She is infallible in faith and morals and I will not judge her descisons. I accept her teachings and I will continue to pray for all the Church.