2015 is a terrible year so far

[Cat]

I agree, the premise healthcare not being a human right is not without merit…however, the heavy concern with her “rights” for what she views adequate compensation was what I found troubling.

I think I gave you the wrong impression.

When people say “health care is a human right,” and when they criticize health care that makes money, I get the impression that they think all of us health care workers should do our work for free out of a desire to serve mankind.

That won’t happen. If I didn’t get paid, believe me, I wouldn’t spend my days digging through pee and poop and lung tissues, and staring at/sniffing bacteria. No way.

 

[Cat]

Back to the original post . . . Dude. your wife is giving you a BIG signal- did you “get married” or enter into the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony? If you solve all the other "problems and lose her, what’s the point. your a team, play it as such and tone down the stand-alone-complex.

That said, all you are sensing is correct and it’s the atheistic popular cultural collectivist agenda that is shaping it: hyper-individualism is the latest form of divide and conquer That’s fancy talk for Christians are under siege. God isn’t the originator either.

Congress has an 86% disapproval rating, so your not alone. The current socialist administration has more than doubled the national debt in 6 years and that’s the pinch you are feeling. . but if you sign this it’ll be all better-sure it will.

Get the propaganda out of your home and turn off the TB-if advertising is supposed to be paying for it, why are you? If it’s really important, the news will get to you by grapevine. you just saved $135/month. Turn on Catholic radio and/or subscribe to a Catholic podcast Try the Break with Fr. Roderick and The Catholics Next Door.

Get off Ovama-care and join a medical sharing program. There is finally a Catholic version out there. Little Netherlands has socialized medicine that accommodates religious beliefs. So just why is this administration holding back on this?

If the economy is getting better,why is the price of everything else but gasoline going up? Has OPEC gone “friendly”? Or people counting down the time remaing 'til election time?

Put aside the world and grab and build on those lovely intangibles. your problems will still be there. Luckily,many others are feeling it too, and that means you can work out an honest deal somewhere.

I agree with much of this, especially the part about turning off the TV. The ads can convince us that our lives are miserable.

Here’s a suggestion for the OP, a very practical suggestion: allow yourself fifteen minutes a day to feel miserable about your terrible 2015. Just 15 minutes.

Then give yourself a shake, smile as big as you can, square your shoulders, and walk back into your life, doing all the things that many of people on this thread are suggesting. I’m not telling your to be happy about your problems, but just be happy about those things in your life that ARE truly good. Dwell on those few good things instead of wallowing in the bad things.

One other practical suggestion that a counselor friend of mine told me years ago: If you are unhappy, pray three times a day (like Daniel). Set aside the time each day and say a prayer or spend more time in prayer if you have that kind of time.

This counselor friend told me that many people find that their problems seem less awful when they develop a habit of 3xday prayer. Makes sense to me.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

2015 has been a hard year from my familly. Is god testing us for some reason? From the moment the big stupid ball in stupid New York dropped it’s just been one problem after another. I know things could be worse but they can definitely be a lot better. And the stress it puts on my wife and myself is terrible. I used to be very easy going and full of patience and optimism- and now my wife always asks me what happened to that guy because now I just walk around angry at the whole world, angry at the government, angry at utilities, angry at my kids catholic school, angry about every institution and entity that seems to just see me as a source of revenue, like cattle. Sometimes I just want to scream or hit something. My health insurance went up big time this year. Double. Like a two day pay cut every month to pay for abortions and ****. Theives.

If God is testing our faith or something I wish he would hurry up and get it over with.

I hear you brother. My wife and I are laughing saying we will remember this year as the year we (fill inThe blank). Like. “2015, the year we got swine flu”

 

[Neofight]

Comparing religious orders to people who have to live and struggle in the world is wrong .

You may think it is hard ,but for most who live apart from the world ,if they chose it ,it is easy in comparison.

I’m sure while the brothers and sisters would not, out of humility, dispute what you say, but I would point out you are TOTALLY wrong in even implying those in religious orders are people who do not struggle in the world.

Really?

Do you honestly believe religious life is easy in comparison to our lives? I find that terribly insulting, and arrogant.

 

[Neofight]

I think I gave you the wrong impression.

When people say “health care is a human right,” and when they criticize health care that makes money, I get the impression that they think all of us health care workers should do our work for free out of a desire to serve mankind.

That won’t happen. If I didn’t get paid, believe me, I wouldn’t spend my days digging through pee and poop and lung tissues, and staring at/sniffing bacteria. No way.

I’m sorry you feel that way…I’ll pray with you…Please pray for me.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I’m sorry you feel that way…I’ll pray with you…Please pray for me.

Am I misunderstanding you? Are you seriously suggesting that this poster shouldn’t get paid for her work?

Tell me, what line of work are you in? Are you an accountant? A physical therapist? A secretary? A manager? If you feel this way, why don’t you refuse to be paid, or work exclusively for a nonprofit or church on a volunteer basis? And do you have a family who depends on you for food and shelter?

 

[Neofight]

Am I misunderstanding you? Are you seriously suggesting that this poster shouldn’t get paid for her work?

Tell me, what line of work are you in? Are you an accountant? A physical therapist? A secretary? A manager? If you feel this way, why don’t you refuse to be paid, or work exclusively for a nonprofit or church on a volunteer basis? And do you have a family who depends on you for food and shelter?

Yes, you are misunderstanding. At issue was not pay and compensation but the attitude that the availability of health care is dictated by the ability to pay enough as not to detract from her expectations on payday.

 

[PaulinVA]

Yes, you are misunderstanding. At issue was not pay and compensation but the attitude that the availability of health care is dictated by the ability to pay enough as not to detract from her expectations on payday.

When you decide that something is a “Human rRght”, you obligate others to provide that “right”.

So, as Cat asked downthread, how much healthcare is a human right? AND, is it also a human right to be paid adequately for the job you have secured?

I don’t understand why you think that people are greedy or selfish if they refuse to accept below-market compensation because the service they are providing is a “right”.

Remember, someone has to pay for healthcare. Are you advocating confiscating money through taxes to provide healthcare? Having healthcare providers provide free services?

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, you are misunderstanding. At issue was not pay and compensation but the attitude that the availability of health care is dictated by the ability to pay enough as not to detract from her expectations on payday.

If your pay at your job (even a job that you loved) was cut by 1/3 or if the pay was the same, but you suddenly lost all of your benefits, wouldn’t you consider quitting and finding something else, no matter how noble your calling was?

(I’m pretty sure that if Cat’s wages were cut by 1/3 or 1/2, she could easily find a job that pays that much, and without all the yucky body fluids.)

Anybody who has financial responsibilities to other human beings is doing the right thing when they consider that option.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

When you decide that something is a “Human rRght”, you obligate others to provide that “right”.

So, as Cat asked downthread, how much healthcare is a human right? AND, is it also a human right to be paid adequately for the job you have secured?

I don’t understand why you think that people are greedy or selfish if they refuse to accept below-market compensation because the service they are providing is a “right”.

Remember, someone has to pay for healthcare. Are you advocating confiscating money through taxes to provide healthcare? Having healthcare providers provide free services?

Catholic social teaching views medical care as a basic human right regardless of the ability to pay.

But first We must speak of man’s rights. Man has the right to live. He has the right to bodily integrity and to the means necessary for the proper development of life, particularly food, clothing, shelter, medical care, rest, and, finally, the necessary social services. In consequence, he has the right to be looked after in the event of ill health; disability stemming from his work; widowhood; old age; enforced unemployment; or whenever through no fault of his own he is deprived of the means of livelihood.

• Pope John XXIII

Bunch more quotes that support the view that medical care is a basic human right.

So yes, I would say if you only wanted to provide medical care to those who could pay you then you shouldn’t go into medicine. Just the same as if you only wanted to put out fires of those who could compensate you handsomely you shouldn’t become a fireman. Whatever system we develop it must provide health care for those who can’t pay for it (and still provide fair compensation to health care providers of course)

As to the OP. I can commiserate with you; my healthcare costs have more than doubled since I lost my cadillac health care plan this past year. Thanks, Obama.

 

[Neofight]

If your pay at your job (even a job that you loved) was cut by 1/3 or if the pay was the same, but you suddenly lost all of your benefits, wouldn’t you consider quitting and finding something else, no matter how noble your calling was?

Yes. That is exactly what I would do. But, to wallow in self pity, and especially to blame my misfortune on the poor is uncharitable.

 

[PaulinVA]

So yes, I would say if you only wanted to provide medical care to those who could pay you then you shouldn’t go into medicine. Just the same as if you only wanted to put out fires of those who could compensate you handsomely you shouldn’t become a fireman. Whatever system we develop it must provide health care for those who can’t pay for it (and still provide fair compensation to health care providers of course)

It’s very easy to say that this or that is a human right. What does that mean? Is the organization that declares the “right” responsible for providing it?

I have a right to vote. That means that no one can prevent me from voting. It does not mean that others are obligated to drive me to the polling place. I am on my own for that.

I have a “right to life”. Doesn’t that mean that others shouldn’t kill me?

As to the bolded quote, would you say the person who owns a pharmacy shouldn’t go in to business if he/she isn’t willing to provide drugs to people for free? How about owning a grocery store - should someone not get into that if they aren’t willing to give food away for free?

Do other people really have a right to my resources?

 

[Burt_Macklin]

It’s very easy to say that this or that is a human right. What does that mean? Is the organization that declares the “right” responsible for providing it?

I have a right to vote. That means that no one can prevent me from voting. It does not mean that others are obligated to drive me to the polling place. I am on my own for that.

I have a “right to life”. Doesn’t that mean that others shouldn’t kill me?

As to the bolded quote, would you say the person who owns a pharmacy shouldn’t go in to business if he/she isn’t willing to provide drugs to people for free? How about owning a grocery store - should someone not get into that if they aren’t willing to give food away for free?

Do other people really have a right to my resources?

Nothing is free. I believe that the analogy I chose was that of a fireman. The government creates the necessary infrastructure to fight fires, including negotiating the firemen’s salary. The government get the necessary funds by levying tax. The fireman doesn’t then have the ability to refuse his services to those in need based on their ability to pay. I never suggested firefighters or health care workers offer their services for free.

I believe governments have an obligation to tax to create the necessary infrastructure for basic human rights like food, water, medicine, shelter, and medical care. So pharmacists or grocery workers should participate in the systems that we have in place.

What would you have hospitals do with patients who can’t pay? Should hospitals be allowed to refuse care for people based on their ability to pay? Say some poor Joe has an emergency with no ID, no proof of insurance, no bank account. What should be done with him?

 

[PaulinVA]

Nothing is free. I believe that the analogy I chose was that of a fireman. The government creates the necessary infrastructure to fight fires, including negotiating the firemen’s salary. The government get the necessary funds by levying tax. The fireman doesn’t then have the ability to refuse his services to those in need based on their ability to pay. I never suggested firefighters or health care workers offer their services for free.

I believe governments have an obligation to tax to create the necessary infrastructure for basic human rights like food, water, medicine, shelter, and medical care. So pharmacists or grocery workers should participate in the systems that we have in place.

What would you have hospitals do with patients who can’t pay? Should hospitals be allowed to refuse care for people based on their ability to pay? Say some poor Joe has an emergency with no ID, no proof of insurance, no bank account. What should be done with him?

 

[PaulinVA]

Nothing is free. I believe that the analogy I chose was that of a fireman. The government creates the necessary infrastructure to fight fires, including negotiating the firemen’s salary. The government get the necessary funds by levying tax. The fireman doesn’t then have the ability to refuse his services to those in need based on their ability to pay. I never suggested firefighters or health care workers offer their services for free.

No, that is exactly what you said. In some parts of the rural US, people pay the local volunteer fire department to protect them. It’s the resident’s choice - fund the department through the fire levy, or don’t call them when your house is on fire. They won’t fight your fire for free. Likewise, while a doctor might provide services pro bono to someone, you can not create an obligation for the doctor to do that. You specifically said that “if you only wanted to provide medical care to those who could pay you then you shouldn’t go into medicine.” which implies they should give their services for free.

I believe governments have an obligation to tax to create the necessary infrastructure for basic human rights like food, water, medicine, shelter, and medical care. So pharmacists or grocery workers should participate in the systems that we have in place.

So, from where do those rights flow? Who created them? The Church?

And I am totally against your idea that governments have the obligation to confiscate money from their citizens to provide for “rights”.

What would you have hospitals do with patients who can’t pay? Should hospitals be allowed to refuse care for people based on their ability to pay? Say some poor Joe has an emergency with no ID, no proof of insurance, no bank account. What should be done with him?

Hospitals are coerced into paying for indigent care as a requirement to get a license to operate. There is no intrinsic duty or obligation for a hospital or doctor to provide care for people who don’t pay.

Taking your argument a step further, you say that shelter is a human right. Why aren’t you creating a corresponding duty or obligation for construction companies to build houses for free? Or grocery stores to give food away? Why not?

Do you think it’s possible to acknowledge a “human right” but not create a corresponding duty or obligation to provide it?

 

[Viki63]

So, from where do those rights flow? Who created them? The Church?

And I am totally against your idea that governments have the obligation to confiscate money from their citizens to provide for “rights”.

Hospitals are coerced into paying for indigent care as a requirement to get a license to operate. There is no intrinsic duty or obligation for a hospital or doctor to provide care for people who don’t pay.

Do you think it’s possible to acknowledge a “human right” but not create a corresponding duty or obligation to provide it?

I wasn’t referring to profits made by health care workers. I’m a nurse, and while I make a good living, I’m supporting a family of people with various health care needs. Of course I wouldn’t want to work for free.
This is what I’m referring to: “All five insurers saw their net income rise in the second quarter, compared with the prior-year period. Aetna saw its profit jump to $536 million, up from $457 million the same quarter in 2012. Aetna also saw tremendous revenue growth—from $8.8 billion to $11.5 billion—but that was largely the result of completing its acquisition of Coventry Health Care in May. Cigna saw its profit soar to $505 million in the second quarter, compared with $380 million in the year-ago quarter.”

Insurance companies rake in enormous profits, and in return, provide us with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE. They sort the money we pay for premiums, co-payments, deductibles, make their own rules, and pay part of our medical expenses. I pay $200 a month in premiums just for myself, whether I visit a doctor or not.
It would work better to pay slightly more in taxes, cut out the premiums, deductibles, and co-pays, and quit paying the insurance companies. That’s what all the other western nations do. Nobody goes bankrupt in Canada due to medical bills. It happens all the time in the US.

If we eliminated insurance company profits, we could save enough to provide basic health care and medications for everyone.
Also if people would quit eating junk and take a walk. everybody wouldn’t need stents, blood pressure meds and coronary bypasses. But that’s another rant.
Yes, I do believe health care is a human right.

 

[PaulinVA]

Insurance companies rake in enormous profits, and in return, provide us with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF VALUE. They sort the money we pay for premiums, co-payments, deductibles, make their own rules, and pay part of our medical expenses.

Nothing of value? Really? There are a large number of people in the United States that receive more money in claims payments from the insurance company than they pay in premiums and copays.

If we eliminated insurance company profits, we could save enough to provide basic health care and medications for everyone.
Also if people would quit eating junk and take a walk. everybody wouldn’t need stents, blood pressure meds and coronary bypasses. But that’s another rant.
Yes, I do believe health care is a human right.​

Big government in the US CAN NOT solve big problems. Look at healthcare.gov and Medicare. Inept and full of bloat, fraud, and money leakage.

 

[benotagoat]

I’m sure while the brothers and sisters would not, out of humility, dispute what you say, but I would point out you are TOTALLY wrong in even implying those in religious orders are people who do not struggle in the world.

Really?

Do you honestly believe religious life is easy in comparison to our lives? I find that terribly insulting, and arrogant.

I think they do struggle in the world ,but those who live in secluded monasteries do so to avoid this struggle ,or at least to prevent themselves 'losing the struggle ’ out there .At least they have chance to do so and are supported by the 'organistaion ,while some souls are given no support of any kind ,and some people have to produce children and struggle without any help of any kind, and it is they who keep the world turning .