27-Jun-08 - Bishop Fellay Rejects Vatican Conditions for Reconciling Split [via EWTN]

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Perhaps but his job is to protect the deposit of faith. After watching him give Communion to non-Catholics and never punish liberals it is within the bounds of any Catholic to question his behavior.

Well, what kind of “unity” is it? If he doesn’t engage in the doctrinal discussions first, why would he invite possible heretics into a false communion in the Church that he would be obliged to excommunicate them later if they don’t recant some heresy?

**There must a profession of faith in order for their to be unity. The SSPX insists that they must have assurances that their positions are truly Catholic. He must validate the correct and incorrect interpretations of the Council.

My suspicion is that he would be forced to condemn certain positions that are incorrect but useful for ecumenical and political purposes. **
When it becomes clear that the Council literally did not change anything about the Catholic Church’s teaching, then that will destroy relations with the Jews and the Protestants and probably win some points with the Muslims and the Orthodox.

But it won’t fly with the majority of the bishops in the Church and that’s where the real apostasy is.

If you read Augustin Cardinal Bea’s writings and speeches on “unity” He plainly stated that “unity” meant the same beliefs, the same sacraments and all under the leadership of the same man, the Pope. Cardinal Bea was the point man for John XXIII and Paul VI on Ecumenism. He would not even recognize it today.
YOU want the POPE to validate that HE is CATHOLIC? Where are you people coming from. This is just another way of saying,“We are above the POPE, He has to do what WE say”:eek:

I would think that the SSPX would have to PROVE that THEYare Catholic…Boy, talk about egotism!!!
 
If you read his encyclical Quanta Cura, I don’t think there can be any confusion or doubt; he opposed religious liberty. His opposition happens to coincide with the consistent position of the magisterium previous to the Council.
I understand what the document says, but what people are not understanding is tha the document was not a dogma. It was based on dogma.

And that the decree on religioius liberty is also based on dogma. The circumstances are such that the sacredness of life has to be protected at all costs, because this is the most fundamental of dogmas.

When you have nations where people’s lives are in danger because of their religious beliefs, then you have to promote religious liberty. Let’s not forget what happened to the Jews during WWII, to the Muslims in Yugoslavia, the Christians in Bosnia and China, or the Christians in Iraq.

Then there are situatioins such as the UK, where an individual loses his right to be a Prime Minister or a Monarch if he abandons the Church of England.

Pius was trying to protect the Catholic Faith. The current decree on religious liberty is tryign to protect the right of people to practice their faith without threats from the state.

To protect the Church, one must first protect freedom of religion. The change in approach comes not from a change in belief, but a change in the way that the world treats people of faith, any faith.

This is a problem that SSPX and Bishop Fellay don’t seem to focuss on. The Church cannot allow any State to persecute people for their faith, because that includes Catholics too. Being of a different faith is not a justifiable reason for killing anyone. It is a violation against the commandments and the dignity of human life.

Does this make sense?

JR 🙂
 
After reading everything, I am appalled that some of you would think the reunification of lack of reunification has a darned thing to do with money. Good Lord people we are talking about souls, not money. Pray that the reunification can take place. I do not see anyone as an SSPX hater, but rather as one who is concerned for the Church as a whole. Call me naive but this is the way I see it. Pray - don’t hate or think money, think souls and salvation.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Does this make sense?

JR 🙂
It makes sense if we suppose that the Church has only ever proposed a teaching on religious freedom in order to defend its material interests, and that the teaching should change where the interests of the Church change.

I disagree with this idea, since I believe that the Church’s position on religious freedom is based on unchanging principles, which require the state to work within its own sphere to conform to the will of God and to work for the salvation of its people.
 
YOU want the POPE to validate that HE is CATHOLIC? Where are you people coming from. This is just another way of saying,“We are above the POPE, He has to do what WE say”:eek:

I would think that the SSPX would have to PROVE that THEYare Catholic…Boy, talk about egotism!!!
I don’t know how you got that impression. It’s the Pope’s job to “confirm the brethren.”

The SSPX have legitimate gripes about incorrect interpretations of the Council documents. Of the thousands of interpretations some are correct and most are probably not correct.

They want THE POPE to condemn erroneous interpretations with magisterial authority since he’s the only one that can do that.

The Pope have been saying what the council is in very odd language. They need to start condemning the errors that people have about the Council.

The fact that the Popes have been unwilling to do this is problematic.
 
It makes sense if we suppose that the Church has only ever proposed a teaching on religious freedom in order to defend its material interests, and that the teaching should change where the interests of the Church change.

I disagree with this idea, since I believe that the Church’s position on religious freedom is based on unchanging principles, which require the state to work within its own sphere to conform to the will of God and to work for the salvation of its people.
I agree with you that the State should work with the will of God for the benefit of its people, spiritual and material. But we don’t live in Utopia.

The Church is aware of that. Therefore, she must demand of the State the freedom of religion as a fundamental human right. Not only must she demand it from the State, but from any group who threatens another because of their religious beliefs, as has been the case in the Middle East.

JR 🙂
 
THEY ARE OF BAD WILL. IT IS OBVIOUS!!! IT IS TIME FOR AN UNDISPUTED EXCOMMUNICATION OF THE SOCIETY FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR SALVATION.

Pope Boniface VIII said it the best in 1302 in the Papal Bull Unam Sanctam. “It is necessary for every creature to submit to the Holy Roman Pontiff in order to be saved.”
Winona, Jun 26, 2008 (CNA).- Bishop Bernard Fellay, the leader of the Society of St. Pius X, has rejected the terms offered by the Vatican for rejoini…

Full article…
NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH…NEWSFLASH…
networkgonewrong.com/
 
Is anyone REALLY surprised by this. If the SSPX accepts the 5 things, wouldn’t they then have to accept having to turn over maybe 5.000,000 dollars in cash and property!!! not in this lifetime…They like it just as it is. Money talks:rolleyes:

(If they ever do, I’ll certainly owe them an apology, which I will gladly do.)😃
Wouldn’t it be better to avoid the possibility of having to make an apology in the first place, by resisting the temptation to judge rashly? Try taking Deacon Ed B’s advice:
Deacon Ed B:
After reading everything, I am appalled that some of you would think the reunification of lack of reunification has a darned thing to do with money. Good Lord people we are talking about souls, not money. Pray that the reunification can take place. I do not see anyone as an SSPX hater, but rather as one who is concerned for the Church as a whole. Call me naive but this is the way I see it. Pray - don’t hate or think money, think souls and salvation.
You’re more naive than I, Deacon. I see a whole lot of SSPX hatred around here.
 
You’re more naive than I, Deacon. I see a whole lot of SSPX hatred around here.
Then call me naive. Call me anything if it could lead to reunification. I will gladly take on whatever title you throw at me.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
I thnk he was ready to capitulate but as he was waiting for the Pope he turned to Sanfrancisco Gay PRide event on italian tv and say cardinals, bishops and priests supporting the sodomite lifestyle and probably said no thanks…

Woo said you will know them by their fruits?

calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=fab92288-8839-4b09-aad0-285f1bed9bf5
??? - This was my first response.

Then I read the link. Lord am I naive. What are the Archbishop and the priests doing supporting an event such as this. . I can assure you. This is not from Vatican II, but from hell. I can understandi working with aids patients but to support a parade such as this…
 
I agree with you that the State should work with the will of God for the benefit of its people, spiritual and material. But we don’t live in Utopia.

The Church is aware of that. Therefore, she must demand of the State the freedom of religion as a fundamental human right. Not only must she demand it from the State, but from any group who threatens another because of their religious beliefs, as has been the case in the Middle East.

JR 🙂
How is it that anyone cannot understand that to affirm freedom of religion as a fundamental human right is to affirm freedom for all Catholics to practice their religion without fear.

And it is a fundamental human right that all people should live without fear, no matter what their faith. This is basic. Charity demands such. Just because people have been blind to these things, mainly because of nationalism, doesn’t mean that deep down we don’t all understand that God does not desire that any human being should be terrorized by another, especially on the grounds of religion.

No brainer.
 
??? - This was my first response.

Then I read the link. Lord am I naive. What are the Archbishop and the priests doing supporting an event such as this. . I can assure you. This is not from Vatican II, but from hell. I can understandi working with aids patients but to support a parade such as this…
I saw a video about that Church recently. A bunch of sicko’s over there…

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4100847374638901678&q=source:008904326146690994936&hl=en
 
No offense to you or Deacon Ed, but have you both been living under a rock for the last few years? This kind of thing is nothing new.
The video was only put out in February. I haven’t heard of the Most Holy Redeemer Church until then.
 
No offense to you or Deacon Ed, but have you both been living under a rock for the last few years? This kind of thing is nothing new.
This kind of thing is fortunately quite rare. Assuming Deacon Ed does not live in that diocese, there is little reason that he should have heard of it.

I think we need to take care lest we characterize the entire Church by some very disobedient Catholics.
 
No offense to you or Deacon Ed, but have you both been living under a rock for the last few years? This kind of thing is nothing new.
I’m sorry, but I have never seen anything such as this. I’ve been a Catholic since 1972 and working for the Catholic Church since 1974 to this day, in an official capacity.

This is not the Catholic Church. These are people acting on their own.

JR 🙂
 
No offense to you or Deacon Ed, but have you both been living under a rock for the last few years? This kind of thing is nothing new.
The video was only put out in February. I haven’t heard of the Most Holy Redeemer Church until then.
This kind of thing is fortunately quite rare. Assuming Deacon Ed does not live in that diocese, there is little reason that he should have heard of it.

I think we need to take care lest we characterize the entire Church by some very disobedient Catholics.
I can happily assure you of several things. 1. No - I am not from that Archdiocese. If I were I would move and request excardination/incardination.from this to another diocese 2. This is not common in my archdiocese at all. S. Texas can have its advantages. 3. I am realizing that naievete can be a gift, that insulates one from such as this. Pray, pray pray for these.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
I’m sorry, but I have never seen anything such as this. I’ve been a Catholic since 1972 and working for the Catholic Church since 1974 to this day, in an official capacity.

This is not the Catholic Church. These are people acting on their own.

JR 🙂
This is why the SSPX say that the Church has lost her way.
The Bishop there is silent and has been silent for years.Nothing will be done to stop this type of thing and nothing comes from the Vatican to stop it either
The toleration for error came out of the “spirit” of Vatican II.
 
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