27-Jun-08 - Bishop Fellay Rejects Vatican Conditions for Reconciling Split [via EWTN]

[pnewton]

This is why the SSPX say that the Church has lost her way.

Then they use poor logic. One does not take the most fringe examples as the norm of the Church. Like Deacon Ed, I have never seen any of the extreme abuses decried by theSSPX.

 

[Our_Refuge]

Then they use poor logic. One does not take the most fringe examples as the norm of the Church. Like Deacon Ed, I have never seen any of the extreme abuses decried by theSSPX.

Not at all. This is the “norm” at Holy Redeemer in San Fran.yet the Bishop there remains silent.This would not have been tolerated before Vatican II

 

[pnewton]

Not at all. This is the “norm” at Holy Redeemer in San Fran.yet the Bishop there remains silent.This would not have been tolerated before Vatican II

I understand, but Holy Redeemer is not the Catholic Church, nor is it representative of the Catholic Church.

 

[pnewton]

NewTopic,

Today is June 30th. As an interesting point, this is the Feast of the Martyrs of the First Church in Rome. The reading today from St. Clement’s letter to the Corinthians.:

Do not forget the words of Jesus or Lord: Woe to that man; it would be better for him if he had not been born rather than scandalize one of my chosen ones. Indeed it would be better for him to have a great millstone round his neck and be drowned in the sea than that he lead astray one of my chosen ones. Your division has led many astray, has made many doubt, has made may despair and has brought grief upon us all. And still your rebellion continues.

Let us beseech St. Clement this day that he will intercede for the Church today.

 

[laudamus_te]

I understand, but Holy Redeemer is not the Catholic Church, nor is it representative of the Catholic Church.

Oh, but it is the representative of the Catholic Church in San Francisco. This type of disgusting shenanigans is nothing new in the Catholic Church, and not only in San Francisco. The apostasy of the clerics and “Catholics” at that particular church has been going for many years, it was just finally made prominent last year with the Youtube video of the Archbishop giving Communion to two members of the “Our Lady of Perpetual ***” “order” (I will not contribute to blasphemy of Our Lady by typing out that last word). Did anyone hear a public rebuke from the Pope to the Archbishop? Anyone? How about a public rebuke from the Pope to the Archbishops who harbored sodomite, pedophile priests? Anyone? Anyone see a list of 5 “conditions” to any of these wayward bishops?

No, I didn’t think so.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

While we are asking How Many…Lets ask some more.
How many of us publicly condemn these people?
How many would like to see them separated from Holy Mother Church? Now the big question…
How many of us truly hold these misguided souls up in prayer? Daily, day in and day out. To do so does not mean we condone what they are doing. It means we recognize judgment is God’s and God’s alone. Our job is prayer. Are we not prayer warriers? Then lets pray that the *father of lies *does not win this one. Pray like their souls depend on them, because they do. Pray and Pray some more for this is our job as Church Militant.
Prayers and prayers and prayers
Deacon Ed B

 

[laudamus_te]

While we are asking How Many…Lets ask some more.
How many of us publicly condemn these people?
How many would like to see them separated from Holy Mother Church? Now the big question…
How many of us truly hold these misguided souls up in prayer? Daily, day in and day out. To do so does not mean we condone what they are doing. It means we recognize judgment is God’s and God’s alone. Our job is prayer. Are we not prayer warriers? Then lets pray that the *father of lies *does not win this one. Pray like their souls depend on them, because they do. Pray and Pray some more for this is our job as Church Militant.
Prayers and prayers and prayers
Deacon Ed B

If you’re asking me, I do not publicly condemn anyone. It is not my right to condemn anyone. I would (and do) speak out publicly against error and apostasy. I do not wish to see anyone separated from Holy Mother Church. I wish (and pray daily - in answer to your next question) for misguided souls. Prayer warriors we are. I try not to assume that others are not praying as they should be.

 

[pnewton]

Anyone see a list of 5 “conditions” to any of these wayward bishops?

No, I didn’t think so.

Two wrong do not equal a right. I do not know of anyone here that would not love to see some of the American bishops held to the same standards of conditions.

 

[laudamus_te]

Two wrong do not equal a right. I do not know of anyone here that would not love to see some of the American bishops held to the same standards of conditions.

The point is, why the inconsistency? Why the public airing of dissatisfaction with the SSPX, while remaining mute about such bishops as the one in SF? And it is by no means just the American bishops who are apostasizing. Bishops in Europe are as bad if not worse. Wouldn’t it do the Church and the world immense good, and keep Catholics on the right path, to see the Pope publicly chastise radical bishops?

 

[pnewton]

Wouldn’t it do the Church and the world immense good, and keep Catholics on the right path, to see the Pope publicly chastise radical bishops?

I would like to see it. I wouldn’t care if it was done in private, though, if it would affect a change.

 

[laudamus_te]

I would like to see it. I wouldn’t care if it was done in private, though, if it would affect a change.

But the value of having the Pope publicly correct the bishops is that it helps teach. The same goes for Bishops publicly correcting the faithful, as in the case of pro-abort politicians receiving Communion. For the faithful to see a publicly pro-abort politician receiving Communion without censure gives them the idea that it is o.k. to do.

 

[piouswoman]

Two wrong do not equal a right. I do not know of anyone here that would not love to see some of the American bishops held to the same standards of conditions.

Then why don’t people speak up? It is the duty of every Catholic to protest this kind of thing, as well as to stand up against error, to demand nothing but the pure unadulterated Catholic Faith. To remain silent is to accept it, and to approve of it. Where is the harsh reaction from the Pope? Or is that only reserved for the Bishops of the SSPX, who do nothing but follow the true Catholic Faith just as pre-Vatican II popes, bishops, saints, martyrs, Doctors of the Church and untold numbers of Catholics have for nearly two thousand years?

 

[consumedconvert]

The point is, why the inconsistency? Why the public airing of dissatisfaction with the SSPX, while remaining mute about such bishops as the one in SF? And it is by no means just the American bishops who are apostasizing. Bishops in Europe are as bad if not worse. Wouldn’t it do the Church and the world immense good, and keep Catholics on the right path, to see the Pope publicly chastise radical bishops?

I assure you, if a liberal Bishop defied the Pope by consecrating four Bishops without the Pope’s consent, he would also be excommunicated.

 

[consumedconvert]

I would like to see it. I wouldn’t care if it was done in private, though, if it would affect a change.

Let’s also not forget that we do not know what has already been said in private.

 

[consumedconvert]

Then why don’t people speak up? It is the duty of every Catholic to protest this kind of thing, as well as to stand up against error, to demand nothing but the pure unadulterated Catholic Faith. To remain silent is to accept it, and to approve of it. Where is the harsh reaction from the Pope? Or is that only reserved for the Bishops of the SSPX, who do nothing but follow the true Catholic Faith just as pre-Vatican II popes, bishops, saints, martyrs, Doctors of the Church and untold numbers of Catholics have for nearly two thousand years?

TO remain silent is not to approve it. I don’t know that anyone here belongs to, what is in theological terms, the Particular Church (ie Diocese) of San Francisco. If I were in that Diocese, I would write the VIcar General, then the Bishop, then the Vatican if nothing changed. But as it stands, I feel that it’s really not my business because I live thousands of miles away. I might as well write the Pope about liturgical abuse in Columbia–I don’t feel it’s my place. But even if I did feel it was my place, the place to start “speaking out” about it wouldn’t be a net board, it would be to the Vicar General of that diocese, and then the Bishop, and then the Vatican.

Have you written a letter to the Vatican, or do you feel, as I do, that it’s not your place?

 

[pnewton]

Then why don’t people speak up? It is the duty of every Catholic to protest this kind of thing, as well as to stand up against error,

Speaking for myself, I know of no situations like this. One sound reason to remain silent is that one has nothing to say but heresay, gossip and passing on of what may be true, may be an urban legend. I agree those with first hand knowledge should speak up. It may be a reflection on how rare this stuff is that more is not said.