#3 – Ignorance of Scripture Verses

[dalcent]

Pope John Paul II was extremely concerned at the Catholic losses to Pentecostalism & Fundamentalism, especially in Latin America. Massive percentages of Catholics are poached by these groups. Thank you Lord, for books like ‘Catholicism and Fundamentalism’ but I only ever seen 1 copy of it in England in 4 ½ years: mine!

So, what ought the priests do? From the pulpit maybe give about 12–20 solidly Catholic verses to give basic answers to the fundamental drivel. But they never even preach any verses whatsoever. It would be **so **easy, but they let the opportunity slip.

And off the Catholics go to the Baptist churches! Why, why why?

I have an great 84 page booklet for Catholics defending us from the New Age movement by the:
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICIAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of Life
A Christian Reflection on the ‘New Age’

Have the Church produced a similar booklet against the Fundamentalist threat? Are they really only a few authors at Ignatius Press on the case whilst millions are being lost?

But again I only think the Catholic parishes need to teach most of their members a couple of dozen verses and they’d be inoculated. But they won’t.

I have decided my break my questions up into a number of posts because I’m looking for real answers and don’t want to be accused of making a ‘buckshot’ attack.

 

[Saint_Augustin]

Unfortunately, many priests are very good orators, but they are also very poor with apologetics.

 

[RCCDefender]

So, what ought the priests do? From the pulpit maybe give about 12–20 solidly Catholic verses to give basic answers to the fundamental drivel. But they never even preach any verses whatsoever. It would be **so **easy, but they let the opportunity slip.

Just wanted to say that this is not the purpose of a homily. Homilies are to reflect on the Mass readings, to tie them together, to give them meaning to us in the present day. Priests don’t preach whatever verses pop into their head that day.

 

[Verita]

I think it’s a mistake to judge the entire Catholic Church by the parishes you are personally familiar with.

But they never even preach any verses whatsoever.

And I’m shocked by this statement. What do you think the 3 passages of scripture in every Mass are for? No, the Catholic Church isn’t like protestant churches where the pastor makes up a new sermon every sunday. The homily is meant to expound upon those scripture passages read during mass. And by doing this the Church is teaching people something more valuable than can be passed along in 12-20 verses.

If your experience at your parish has been negative, that’s a shame. But don’t pass the blame to the entire church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

First, the Bible (marvelous and inerrant Word of God) is not something that can be reduced to a ‘couple of dozen bible verses’ that can somehow ‘innoculate’ Catholics against Protestantism. Where did you ever come up with this idea?

The Bible is meant to be read, as a whole, and in context. One of the major reasons that Protestantism came to be was just precisely as a result of ‘cherry picking’ Bible verses and using them to bolster up protesting against ‘popish’ practices. The Bible is a major part of the Catholic faith but it is only a part. Sacred Tradition is equally important; neither contradicts the other. And above all, the Magesterium exists to help guide us (thank you, Holy Spirit) from private interpretations etc etc.

As was also addressed in another of your threads, you seem to have this ‘micromanagement’ idea that the priests need to ‘preach more’ (supposedly like protestant preachers) and that because they don’t, millions of Catholics are abandoning the faith.

Pardon me, but that is hogwash. It’s one of those ‘post hoc, ergo propter hoc’ fallacies. Because at this particular time in history we have fewer priests here in many areas of the U.S., and because we have due to multiple factors both more Catholics (professed) yet less openly or perceptually perceived as being ‘faithful’ Catholics and because there likewise exist at this time in South America more Protestant evangelists who are making a concerted effort to ‘evangelize’ to Catholics, who already have a Christian background, as opposed to ministering to those without such background or with less time or fewer members (like in Asia or Africa), you’re thinking that the reason the Protestants are converting those Catholics is by their superior preaching coupled with ‘poor’ Catholic teaching. It just isn’t so.

 

[Marauder]

This is where the style of the Catholic church is different from the style of many Protestant churches. Many Protestant churches like to teach people several quotes from the Bible and take them out of context.

The Catholic church doesn’t view it that way, lines out of the Bible are not meant to be taken out of context. This context has to be viewed both in line with the ENTIRE Bible and that of church Tradition. Teaching people individual quotes from the Bible does not teach them the Bible.

Over a 3 year period an average Catholic at Mass hears most of the New Testament and a good portion of the Old Testament. Most Protestant services I have been to only quote a couple lines out of the Bible and then expand on them over and over again.

Can it be done better? Yes

One thing to think about is, why did you convert to Catholicism in the first place, was it over the doctrine, dogmas, beliefs, etc? Or was it over the man made aspects of the church? So far everything you have been complaining about are practices, not beliefs. Things that can be changed, or are different depending on where you are. If the problems are the method of getting the message out, things like that can be overcome.

 

[Fergal]

In this day and age of immediate information there is no excuse for the serious Catholic to be ignorant of their Faith whether the local clergy teach it or not.

And off the Catholics go to the Baptist churches! Why, why why?

Most times because of the Church’s stance on artificial contraception, abortion, Holy Communion and Confession. These of course along with the hierarchial structure of the Church and the non admission of women to the Priesthood.
They feel these and other immutable teachings of the Church are out of date or not relevant to them. Choosing to stay in the Church pricks their consciences. So, the pricking of the conscience eases when they move to a church that caters for their caffeteria Christianity.

The fact is they know fundamental Church teaching very well indeed. They choose to reject it and hence move.

I would take serious issue with you if you were inferring that they are leaving simply becuase Priests are not preaching the fundamentals of the faith?

Have the Church produced a similar booklet against the Fundamentalist threat?

Yes! It is called the Catechism of the Catholic Church and hundreds of millions of copies have been sold around the world in many languages.
I agree that it needs to be studied more and perhaps if you decided to do so you would find all the answers to the arguments presented in the fundamental drivel you talk about.

To walk away from the Church in whom subsists the wholness of truth as revealed through the ages, without even the slightest personal research, is spiritual and eschatological suicide.

Don’t be waiting for others. Start the search yourself.

 

[PaulAckermann]

If you are planning to leave the Church, where else would you go to have the Truth? Where else would you receive the Eucharist, the very body and blood of Christ?

If it bothers you that there are many Catholics that are ignorant of the faith, then do something about it. But how would leave the Church help the situation? Where would you go. Would you then joing the fundementalists?

 

[dawgfan]

I think its only an assumption to make that the “average” protestant knows the bible well (and for that matter interpretation of scriptures also). When I was a regular protestant churchgoer I admit that I was ignorant as well as most of those that I knew as well. I think its great that you’ve found a “zeal” for evangelizing and study. Perhaps instead of making complaints about your church, you should put this newfound “zeal” for the faith and make some solutions to the discouragement that you see in the others faith in your parish.

 

[Damascus]

If you are planning to leave the Church, where else would you go to have the Truth? Where else would you receive the Eucharist, the very body and blood of Christ?

If it bothers you that there are many Catholics that are ignorant of the faith, then do something about it. But how would leave the Church help the situation? Where would you go. Would you then joing the fundementalists?

Paul, Check his profile and take a peek at the number of Threads posts he is bombarding us with here today. I already asked him that Point Blank and he has too many threads going now to respond to any of them!!

Is there a posting limit on how many threads someone can blast us with here?

Mods? Anyone know???

 

[rpp]

The Mass is for worship not teaching.

If you want to study sciptures and your parish is not so willing or able to organize some kind of Bible Study (all too common), the form a study group on your own. Use one of St. Joseph Communicatons study programs, like those from Jeff Cavins or Dr. Scott Hahn, as a guide.

** For the sake of your eternal soul**, do not leave the Church just because your intellectual needs are not being met in your ciurrent parish. Find another parish, but please do not leave the Church!

 

[Damascus]

Dear OP have you been to the Holy Scripture part of this forum???

I can tell you MANY Catholics here know their Bible. First to come to mind here is MARIA G. Now I think I am going to PM her so you can find out how wrong you are.

These threads you are posting here today make me wonder if you are angry about something, and if there is more to the story than you pondering leaving the Bride of Christ here.

 

[MountainMan]

Dalcent -

I just reviewed not only this Question # 3 but all of your recent questions. It sounds to me as though you are making the mistake G.K. Chesterton observed with respect to the opinions of non-believers toward Christians and Christianity in general: they judged them (Christians) and it (Christianity) by the behavior of individual Christians. My point here is to suggest that you not look at the behavior of individual Catholics or priests, but at the fundamentals of the faith - the things that drew you into the Church from the beginning. It is those things that should keep you with us: we have the fullness of the truth.

With respect to ignorance of scripture in particular, I agree with a couple of other respondents that knowing a few verses would not ‘innoculate’ anyone, and may in fact put them in deeper jeopardy should those with whom they are speaking challenge them with other verses with which they are not familiar. I agree that is it sad that so many Catholics are not very familiar with scripture but pleased to note that many Catholic churches are now sponsoring Bible study groups.

One additional comment: you note that you have ‘no friends’ in the Catholic Church. In this case, I have to suggest that you look to yourself first. To have friend, one must be a friend. You need not wait for others to reach out to you; you can initiate. That being said, I suggest you attend daily Mass for a while. You will almost certainly see someone there with whom to strike up a friendship.

Do not abandon the fullness of the Church because of the behavior of others in it; rather stay because of the truth you have found -

Chuck

 

[puzzleannie]

I have decided my break my questions up into a number of posts because I’m looking for real answers and don’t want to be accused of making a ‘buckshot’ attack.

yeah, right, I think you last track of the numbers of your buckshot threads. there are two #3s. you are listing excuses, not reasons, for your supposed threat to leave the Catholic church. If you truly believed that the Catholic Church holds believes and teaches the truth as revealed in Jesus Christ nothing, no action or words of any individual Catholic, could persuade you to leave.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Tantum Ergo is quite correct. Catholic’s don’t learn the Bible by memorizing verses (which often can be taken out of context) but by the practice of lecto divina (listening to the entire message in context). It goes to a philosophy that it is the Bible in total that is inerrant. Just like any good statistician can make statistics lie, a good wordsmith can mutilate the intent of Scripture. I suggest you read up on lecto divina as a means of communing with Word and then participate (or form) a Bible Study Group that uses a guide liek that of Scott Hahn of Jeff Cavins who pull each lesson together with related text (ala from teh Old Testament) to allow one to get the full context of the Scripture.

 

[heisenburg]

whats more important… knowing the bible, or knowing where a verse is.

Ask a nominal catholic what verse is where… and there stumped… but ask that same nominal catholic if they are fmailiar with the event where jesus did X or where where paul said Y. and you will always get… oh… yeh i know that

Take it a step further…

ALMOST EVERYTHING IN MASS EXCEPT THE HOMILY IS ALMOST DIRECTLY OUT THE BIBLE…

this includes most songs…

We jsut dont preface EVERYTHING with 1 Tim 3:15 … 2 peter 1:19 etc

Just because we dont focus on the were in the bible doesnt mean we dont use the bible

again… whats mroe important… knowing the material… or knowing their location

In Christ

 

[dawgfan]

Damascus, when I read your post above, I thought you were being overly critical towards the OP but since I haven’t seen any responses to any of our comments, this has become almost like a game. Anyone care to make bet what #8, #9, #10 will be? Saints?, Mary? Any takers…Its like Letterman’s top ten list in reverse.

 

[FCEGM]

And off the Catholics go to the Baptist churches! Why, why why?

And yet here you are claiming to be seriously considering doing the same thing, maybe not to the Baptists, but elsewhere than remaining in Christ’s Church. So where would you go? Just sit at home pondering the ills of the Church?

 

[Damascus]

Damascus, when I read your post above, I thought you were being overly critical towards the OP but since I haven’t seen any responses to any of our comments, this has become almost like a game. Anyone care to make bet what #8, #9, #10 will be? Saints?, Mary? Any takers…Its like Letterman’s top ten list in reverse.

Lol. OUCH.

** But I have tried to get aswers from him on all his numerous posts and I think he is begging the question.

And you may be right. I wish there was a way to put an alert on when he posts threads on my profile somewhere so I can get a notification each time.

Its hard to track them all the way i am doing it.

Again, is there a limit on how many threads he can post in one day that is about the Church being apostate or flawed?

How about 2 threads a day? or something we can manage without making it a full time job to try to help this man?

 

[jim1130]

Pope John Paul II was extremely concerned at the Catholic losses to Pentecostalism & Fundamentalism, especially in Latin America. Massive percentages of Catholics are poached by these groups. Thank you Lord, for books like ‘Catholicism and Fundamentalism’ but I only ever seen 1 copy of it in England in 4 ½ years: mine!

So, what ought the priests do? From the pulpit maybe give about 12–20 solidly Catholic verses to give basic answers to the fundamental drivel. But they never even preach any verses whatsoever. It would be **so **easy, but they let the opportunity slip.

And off the Catholics go to the Baptist churches! Why, why why?

I have an great 84 page booklet for Catholics defending us from the New Age movement by the:
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICIAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE
Jesus Christ the bearer of the Water of Life
A Christian Reflection on the ‘New Age’

Have the Church produced a similar booklet against the Fundamentalist threat? Are they really only a few authors at Ignatius Press on the case whilst millions are being lost?

But again I only think the Catholic parishes need to teach most of their members a couple of dozen verses and they’d be inoculated. But they won’t.

I have decided my break my questions up into a number of posts because I’m looking for real answers and don’t want to be accused of making a ‘buckshot’ attack.

Sad that non-Catholic Christians go out and evangelize Catholics.