3 days and 3 nights

[RoHere]

Quote: Jesus kept the Passover with the disciples the evening beforre where is that in the bible?

The LAST SUPPER is the Passover that Jesus kept with them. He broke the bread with them and drank the wine. THen after this he was taken from the garden by the soldiers and kept up all night as they took him before the Sanhedrin, before Pilot, then to Herod, then back to Pilot and then he was scourged. He was then taken to calvary and crucified at about 9AM.

Matthew 26:17-20 / Mark 14:12-17 / Luke 22:7-16 / John 13:1 This is where he kept the Passover with them.

Quote: There is no biblical proof that that Thursday was a High Holy Sabbath.

Jesus was crucified the day before the High Holy Day:
John 19:31 “The Jews therefore because it was the preparation that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day (for that Sabbath was a high day) besought Pilot that their legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.”

Luke 23:55 And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.

They got Jesus’ body covered and into the tomb just as the sun slipped below the horizon. Jesus is now in the earth and the clock begins.

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment. (That would be one of the 10)

Quote: That is not what the bible says. It is written, “But on the first day of the week at early dawn, they came to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared…”

John 20:1 -They came very early the first day, while it was still dark…That could be any time after sunset Saturday until daybreak on Sunday morning.

There are some good harmony of the gospels that show all 4 gospel accounts of these events.

It is important to me to know that Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights because that is the sign of his Messiahship (Matthew 12:38-40). That is why it is important to me.

Bottomline is that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the grave so that we can have eternal life.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that all who believe in Him, should not perish BUT have everlastinglife.

Thank you.

 

[matheo]

Ro Here…

The Bottomline “IS” the Bottomline…

 

[Lazerlike42]

Ro,

It’s very clear that in Jewish culture, the phrase “three days and three nights” was an expression that referred to any portion of three consecutive day. The Jewish legal principles held that any onah, or part of a day, qualified as an entire day itself. So there’s absolutely no problem whatsoever to say that Jesus was in the tomb from Friday to Sunday. Now, I suppose it’s possible that Jesus was not using the figure of speech or the principle of the onah, and so on the basis of His statement alone, it’s possible that He really was in their three full days and three full nights.

But the Scripture says more than that. It also says that Jesus would rise “on the third day”:

(Mat 16:21) From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and **on the third day **be raised.

(Mat 17:23) and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day." And they were greatly distressed.

(Mat 20:19) and deliver him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day."

(Mat 27:64) Therefore order the tomb to be made secure until the third day, lest his disciples go and steal him away and tell the people, ‘He has risen from the dead,’ and the last fraud will be worse than the first."

(Luk 9:22) saying, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.”

(Luk 13:32) And he said to them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I finish my course.

(Luk 18:33) And after flogging him, they will kill him, and on the third day he will rise."

(Luk 24:7) that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise."

(Luk 24:46) and said to them, "Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,

Furthermore, the Scripture reports after He had been risen that it was “on the third day” that He in fact was raised:

(Luk 24:21) But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this,** it is now the third day since these things happened.**

(Act 10:40) ** but God raised him on the third day **and made him to appear,

(1Co 15:4) that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures,

There’s no evidence whatsoever that “the third day” is any Jewish expression of any sort. Even if there were, it wouldn’t make any sense for St. Paul to use it when writing to the Greek city of Corinth, the people of which wouldn’t understand it, or for St. Peter to use it when speaking to Cornelius, a Roman soldier.

So we are left with two possibilities here. We must accept that either Christ was raised on the third day since His Resurrection and that He was using the well established Jewish expression and legal principle of the onah when He said “three days and three nights,” or we must accept that He was raised after three full days and three full nights and that the term “the third day” is a figure of speech in three different cultures for which we have no evidence whatsoever.

Your desire to preserve the reality of Christ’s sign is very good. However, in insisting on His rising after three full days and three full nights you are damaging your own cause by making the Scriptures a mess of contradiction.

Peace and God bless

 

[annem]

Hi, In one of his tape series, Scott Hahn mentions that there were two calenders in use at the time of Jesus’ death. Does anyone know anything more about this, and how it might resolve some of the problems mentioned? God bless, Annem

 

[Deacon_Joseph]

Hi, In one of his tape series, Scott Hahn mentions that there were two calenders in use at the time of Jesus’ death. Does anyone know anything more about this, and how it might resolve some of the problems mentioned? God bless, Annem

I heard that somewhere as well. Something about it being on the Jewish calander; there, it was three days from death to resurrection.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Dr. Hahn was, if he was being consistent with his teaching elsewhere, referring to the Syriac calendar that was in place, which would have placed the Last Supper on Tuesday. I respect Dr. Hahn a great deal, but I must strongly disagree with him regarding his opinion on this point. There are many reasons for this, some of which have already been explained below.

Additional reasons are:

• The Synoptic Gospels are very clear that the Last Supper occured after the slaying of the Passover lambs. This was done according to the standard calendar, not the Syriac Calendar.
• The Syriac calendar was followed by the Essenes. Jesus’ teaching was not consistent with Essene thought, but rather with Pharisaical thought. (This may confuse some people, as Christ almost seems to spend the gospels criticizing the Pharisees. However, He was criticizing the corruption of the Pharisees in town, not Pharisaicism itself, which was one of the three primary Jewish movements existing at the time. By most accounts, Jesus was Himself a Pharisee - which, contrary to popular conception, was not some particular office or role, but more similar to a political party. Also recall His instruction to the Jews to obey the Pharisees doctrine. See below.)
• A crucifixion on Wednesday (as the Syriac calendar dictates) would add two days to the story of which we have no reports. It is hard to accept that the evangelists would have written the gospels and ignored two whole days at the most critical time in the entire Christian story.

Some of the reasons that it is very unlikely Jesus was an Essene are:

• Essenes seem to have rigidly avoided sinners, whereas Jesus was criticized for the amount of time He spent with them.
• Essenes avoided outsiders; they didn’t engage in disputes about their way of life versus that of others. Jesus taught and lived an evangelistic way of life.
• The Essenes seem to have been known for an extremely strict adherence to the Mosaic Law, similar if not worse than the sorts of practices that Jesus criticized.
• The Essenes may have had a militaristic or vengeful understanding of the Messiah and of the Kingdom of God.

Peace and God bless!

 

[annem]

That’s very interesting, thanks! Annem,

 

[COPLAND_3]

I had given a few Patrisitic quotes concerning this thread topic, here is another from Isho’Dad of Merv, who is a Syriac Father who was bishop of Hedhatta AD 850. I like his answer.

About this, that our Lord was three days and three nights in the heart of the earth, old Teachers and Hannan say thus : a day is part of the day of Friday ; and a night the darkness which [was] in the midst ; and a day the three hours that were after the darkness ; and a night and a day of the Sabbath ; and the night of the first day of the week ; which altogether were six ; three of light and three of darkness.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Dr. Hahn was, if he was being consistent with his teaching elsewhere, referring to the Syriac calendar that was in place, which would have placed the Last Supper on Tuesday. I respect Dr. Hahn a great deal, but I must strongly disagree with him regarding his opinion on this point. There are many reasons for this, some of which have already been explained below.
…

• The Syriac calendar was followed by the Essenes. Jesus’ teaching was not consistent with Essene thought, but rather with Pharisaical thought. …
• A crucifixion on Wednesday (as the Syriac calendar dictates) would add two days to the story of which we have no reports. It is hard to accept that the evangelists would have written the gospels and ignored two whole days at the most critical time in the entire Christian story.

Well, I see you do your homework!
From what I have seen of the Qumran community, considering them to be “essene” as an assumption – I would agree. Nor would I hold that John the baptist were an essene based on the popular reasons I have seen exploited for that position.

• Essenes avoided outsiders; they didn’t engage in disputes about their way of life versus that of others. Jesus taught and lived an evangelistic way of life.

• The Essenes seem to have been known for an extremely strict adherence to the Mosaic Law, similar if not worse than the sorts of practices that Jesus criticized.

• The Essenes may have had a militaristic or vengeful understanding of the Messiah and of the Kingdom of God.

Quite true, although “militaristic” could also be thought of as “ritualistic” war. To win the war, one did a ritual – so perhaps they might be viewed as almost superstitious.

In the earlier link you posted, I was skimming it and did not come across a point that I expect there is a simple cursory dismissal of, but which none the less ought to be addressed for thoroughness:

Eg: the exception given by God in Numbers 9:6 for individual cases – which emphasizes the meaning of the death and resurrection by forbidding the touching of a dead body to be allowed during the celebration – such cleaning required a week, notably the third day (eg: in the seven of creation, when the sea was formed) was the day of washing or purification for those who had become unclean. Also, the seventh day – when the cleansing was completed by a second washing. So these people were unable to celebrate the passover properly because their contact with death had to be symbolically purified first.

This also ties into Jonah, the sign of Jonah, and the general topic of this thread in a special way: The expression three days and nights is only used about three-four times in scripture – although the expression “third” day (without night) is quite common. The link between these three-four passages is that at least a near death encounter was the theme – the egyptian caught by David starving in the desert, Esther preparing to violate a law which would likely bring death, and Jonah – who had violated the oracle of God and from the text – and who evidently DID experience death.

A couple of things I would like to point out about the statement is that:

– Jesus does not say three days and nights by themselves, but as a “similie” – eg: like Jonas.

–Jonas went through a death and ressurection with certain characteristics which prefigure the resurrection in certain ways.

Has anyone researched Jonas and the expression three days and three nights to see the bigger context of what is being said?
eg: Jonas was in the belly (literally koilias – GUTS / intestines) of the fish.
In the book of Jonas, he is quite clearly dead – as this place called `ellas in Greek – the place of the dead. ( Also, not a place of fire – suggesting the Greek idea of the abyss – eg: of crime meeting an equivalent punishment – tartarus? ).

Jonas refers to some mysterious waters in the ocean as “potarioi” – the same word used of freshwater rivers which bear the clay from which pottery is made – and the identical idea with which is associated the formation of man in the womb.
Perhaps the writer of Jonas envisions the estuary situation – but the idea/image of fertility and of waters traditionally used for washing are fairly strong.

Eg: In the Greek scriptures both new and old testament, when a child is formed in the womb – the “kolias” (belly/gut) is the most common way to talk about the child’s condition in the “womb” rather than actaually using the word for “womb” (matri…) which does exist even in Greek.

There is also a notion of the “heart” of the sea – which Jesus replaces with something like “heart” of the earth – I haven’t checked the exact Greek word there yet – but clearly Jesus is not saying the IDENTICAL thing is happening to him as to Jonas – but something similar in a special way, and so I tend to think it is a mistake to look at the days and nights literally in any event.

One other majorly surprising aspect of Jonas being FED to the fish by PAGANS is that the pagans are saved by the act. The sea, symbol of baptism, which wipes out the Pagan Egyptians as the Israelites cross the sea in Exodus – in Jonas, this same “sea” saves the pagans because of what happens to Jonas.

I think your case could be much stronger on other grounds than mechanistic calculation of the day of the sabbath.

More thoughts Lazerlike… ?

 

[Huiou_Theou]

Also if anyone knows of where Dr. Hahn actually talks about the syriac calendar in connection with the passover, I sure would appreciate finding out more. I haven’t read things along this line, and would be interested…

Peace.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… So why did Jesus mentioned “three days and three nights”? My opinion is this; the four gospels centers on the “passion of Christ” which includes not only the crucifixion, but the last supper as well.Jesus did not say that he would be in the “tomb” for three days and three nights, but in the belly of the earth, which means Hadies, that is, a spiritual state of being separation from God due to sin. Since, as a Catholic, I do not separate the sacrifice of the Holy Mass from the sacrifice of the cross, it would seem that Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself at the last supper, giving Him a state where he also was separated from the Father, since death is the fruit of sin. The scriptures mentioned that “His soul was distressed to the point of death”.The whole Passion lasted three days and three nights.

Andre

And here’s a link to a Protestant website that agrees with you.
blessedcause.org/BlessedCause%20Exclusives/The%20Sign%20of%20Jonah.htm

 

[catholic2]

I am convinced, that the Crucifixion day could not have occured on Friday but did occur on Thursday.

There are Sabbaths that are not Saturday, and my studies lead me to conclude that Friday was also a sabbath, the Sabbath of Unleavened Bread. Therefore Crucifixion had to be on Thursday.

Some have said the Crucifixion was on Wednesday, because of Christ’s statement (Mat 12:40b)

“*…so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.”

*" but if that were so, then Christ would have been buried longer than three days and nights, negating His own prophecy.

Friday crucifixion of course could not fulfill the 3 day/night prophecy, but Thursday could using the accepted biblical practice of using any portion of a day or night as fulfilling that particular day or night.

Also, Jesus’ last five days of life as a mortal man followed exactly the treatment of the Passover Lamb in Exodus 12, starting from Abib/Nisan 10 entry into Jerusalem. He entered Jerusalem on Sunday late afternoon, was examined as was the Passover Lamb until preparation day Thursday, was declared perfect by Pontious Pilate, then died on the cross that late afternoon about 3 pm, the same moment when the Passover Lamb was also slain at the temple. He was buried before sunset Thursday just before Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread began at sunset. There he remained the three days and nights, and on the third day He rose.
Jesus was ressurected on Abib/Nisan 17, or sometimes during the night starting after sunset Saturday to Sunday morning.

Mat 28:1 is mistranslated starting from Jerome 1600 years ago. It’s an easy mistake to make since preparation day precedes the Sabbath, and one instinctively assigns the sabbath to Saturday. So with a pre-concieved idea of a Saturday Sabbath one can perhaps be blinded by an apparent anomaly and discount it. But if you will look at the original language you will see that it refers to multiple sabbaths: Direct translation from the Greek: (UBS 3rd edition)
“*Evening but of sabbaths, in the dawning on in one of sabbaths went Mariam the Magdalene and the other Maria to watch the tomb.”
*Also, look at the other Gospels in the Greek in the same scenario. Multiple Sabbaths are definitely mentioned.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Also, Jesus’ last five days of life as a mortal man followed exactly the treatment of the Passover Lamb in Exodus 12, starting from Abib/Nisan 10 entry into Jerusalem. He entered Jerusalem on Sunday late afternoon…

Consider John 12:1 and you’ll see that Jesus arrived at Bethany six (6) days proir to Passover. By your reckoning, that would be a Saturday - and I don’t think Jesus would travel to Bethany on a Sabbath.

I think Jesus triumphant entry into Jerusalem was on a Monday - which we Catholics now celebrate on Palm Sunday.

… But if you will look at the original language you will see that it refers to multiple sabbaths…

Do you think it’s possible that the Saturday was a Sabbath for two reasons; i) becuase it was Saturday and ii) because it was Passover?

 

[catholic2]

Consider John 12:1 and you’ll see that Jesus arrived at Bethany six (6) days proir to Passover. By your reckoning, that would be a Saturday - and I don’t think Jesus would travel to Bethany on a Sabbath. I think Jesus triumphant entry into Jerusalem was on a Monday - which we Catholics now celebrate on Palm Sunday.

Do you think it’s possible that the Saturday was a Sabbath for two reasons; i) becuase it was Saturday and ii) because it was Passover?

The Passover began on Thursday at twilight (6pm), therefore Palm Sunday, Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem, was on Sunday late afternoon.

No, there were two separate sabbaths as I stated in my post. If both Sabbaths fell on the same day, it would be considered as one. Check out the original Greek which says Sabbaths (plural).

 

[Huiou_Theou]

The Passover began on Thursday at twilight (6pm), therefore Palm Sunday, Jesus’ entry into Jerusalem, was on Sunday late afternoon.

No, there were two separate sabbaths as I stated in my post. If both Sabbaths fell on the same day, it would be considered as one. Check out the original Greek which says Sabbaths (plural).

I think Lazerlike has some counterexamples where other sabbaths are shown in plural in the Original Greek, but which refer to a single day.
Since you are able to read some Greek – do you have an explanation why these other examples are plural as well, when the page claims they refer to single days?
eg: see section IV of page NTC18.htm to get the point.

If you would like to study this issue, I would recommend you go to this page: doig.net/NTCIV.htm.

I haven’t the time to verify these issues right now, but I am interested in what you think about them.

–Andrew.

 

[catholic2]

Consider John 12:1 and you’ll see that Jesus arrived at Bethany six (6) days proir to Passover. By your reckoning, that would be a Saturday - and I don’t think Jesus would travel to Bethany on a Sabbath.

I think Jesus triumphant entry into Jerusalem was on a Monday - which we Catholics now celebrate on Palm Sunday.

Do you think it’s possible that the Saturday was a Sabbath for two reasons; i) becuase it was Saturday and ii) because it was Passover?

 

[catholic2]

Charlie, I might have been too hasty in my response to your post. Let me get back to you. Back to the drawing board for me…

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Charlie, I might have been too hasty in my response to your post. Let me get back to you. Back to the drawing board for me…

Just to clarify my thoughts…

• Jesus arrived at Bethany on Sunday.
• His triumphant entry into Jerusalem was Monday (although we Catholics now celebrate that on Palm Sunday).
• Thursday night was the day of the last supper.
• Friday afternoon He was crucified
• Friday evening was the start of Passover
• Friday evening and Saturday He laid (in rest) in the tomb (which I think it’s interesting that God made Saturday the day of rest)
• Sunday He rose from the dead.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Is there any support for a “special Sabbath” that year in the Bible? I dont recall seeing there was a special Sabbath and I recall others affirming this as well.

 

[catholic2]

Just to clarify my thoughts…

• Jesus arrived at Bethany on Sunday.
• His triumphant entry into Jerusalem was Monday (although we Catholics now celebrate that on Palm Sunday).
• Thursday night was the day of the last supper.
• Friday afternoon He was crucified
• Friday evening was the start of Passover
• Friday evening and Saturday He laid (in rest) in the tomb (which I think it’s interesting that God made Saturday the day of rest)
• Sunday He rose from the dead.

Ok, Charlie: I was taken aback from your previous post that Jesus would not travel to Bethany on the Sabbath day because of the restriction on Sabbath travel, but I remember when Jesus and his disciples had broken the Sabbath by picking grain, making mud and that Jesus said that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Also, Jesus said that He was the Lord of the Sabbath. Now I don’t know where Jesus was prior to arriving at Bethany, or whether it was over the 3/4 mile or so travel restriction, but the Lord, following his previous experience, could have done so with impunity on His authority.
So I am back to my original stance: Here it is in graphic form, following your format with my changes.

• Jesus arrived at Bethany on Saturday.(7th day)
• His triumphant entry into Jerusalem was Sunday. (1st day) (Catholics now celebrate that on Palm Sunday).
• Wednesday night was the day of the last supper.(4th day)
• Thursday afternoon He was crucified
• Thursday before 6pm He was laid in the tomb.
• Thursday evening (6pm) was the start of Passover (5th day)
• Friday (Passover…a Sabbath) (6th day)
  *Saturday (Sabbath) (7th day)
• Sunday after Saturday midnight, AM He rose from the dead (day 1)

In this manner what Jesus said of 3 days and 3 nights would be fulfilled:
Thursday Thursday night
Friday Friday night
Saturday Saturday night
Sunday (after midnight of Saturday) Ressurection.

…I know, this is just the beginning of a long discussion…