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DarinHamel
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I have seen it go purgation, illumination and union and I have seen it go illumination, purgation and union. Which way do the more authoritative writers put it and why?
Only way I’ve ever seen it is purgative, illuminative then unitive.I have seen it go purgation, illumination and union and I have seen it go illumination, purgation and union. Which way do the more authoritative writers put it and why?
Purgation, ilumination, and then union seems more accurate to me. You are first purged of all your attachments and then you are illiminated by grace and made perfect, and then finally you come into union with God.I have seen it go purgation, illumination and union and I have seen it go illumination, purgation and union. Which way do the more authoritative writers put it and why?
What do you mean when you say, “come into union with God”?Purgation, ilumination, and then union seems more accurate to me. You are first purged of all your attachments and then you are illiminated by grace and made perfect, and then finally you come into union with God.
Salvation from the Catholic perspective. The Catholic teaching of salvation is that it is a process where we are made more like Christ. In order to enter heaven(which would be union with God) we must be perfected. So first comes purgation, or purification from our temptations. Next comes illumination, in which we recieve grace that perfects us and gives us true love for God and our neighbors. Then comes union with God, or in other words heaven.What do you mean when you say, “come into union with God”?
hahaha, I am still working on that too. You might be the mystic of our times JimG.I think the most recent order is given this way:
–detachment from the internet
–purgation
–illumination
–union (contemplation)
I’m still working on the first one.
I am, of course, the most authoritative author I know …I have seen it go purgation, illumination and union and I have seen it go illumination, purgation and union. Which way do the more authoritative writers put it and why?
You dont mean that we become one with God, as in buddhism and becoming one with the universal spirit, you mean being with him in heaven, correct?Salvation from the Catholic perspective. The Catholic teaching of salvation is that it is a process where we are made more like Christ. In order to enter heaven(which would be union with God) we must be perfected. So first comes purgation, or purification from our temptations. Next comes illumination, in which we recieve grace that perfects us and gives us true love for God and our neighbors. Then comes union with God, or in other words heaven.
I do not know or mean what the Bhuddists say. Our job is to become like Christ. Since Christ was perfect, it is our job to become perfect. Being with Him in heaven means more than just being there. We must be perfect in order to enter heaven as Revelation says.You dont mean that we become one with God, as in buddhism and becoming one with the universal spirit, you mean being with him in heaven, correct?
Thats the way I see it too. I think the bible agrees with us too.I am, of course, the most authoritative author I know …
What can a person purge if he has not been illuminated first? What does he toss out, and why would he? The cart goes behind the horse.
The thing is, you can’t recieve what you can’t hold. You can’t recieve Grace if you have no capacity for it. A person who steels must stop steeling before he can begin to give. Being free from sin is not equivalent to perfection. You must learn to love perfectly in order to be perfect. This perfection comes after you free yourself from sin in most cases. There are exceptions though, as in pretty much every case.Thats the way I see it too. I think the bible agrees with us too.
Look at this:
Birth-40 days-Presentation
Baptism-40 days-Ministry
Resurrection-40 days-Ascension
These seem to symbolize illumination, purgation and union if we use the life of Christ as the mystical model.
Well I goofed . . . such are the risks of trying to quote from memory I guessSpiritual betrothal and marriage are the terms St. John and St. Teresa commonly used for all of this. I’ve also seen classifications like beginner, proficient and perfect (for example in the Cloud of Unknowing) that probably roughly equate to purgative, illuminative and unitive that other theologians use.
No question is not a sin. The problem that I have with what you are saying is that it assumes that after purgation we are perfect, but as I understand it(and I may be wrong) purgation is only the begining of perfection. Perfection(we can’t be perfect as God is but it is possible that we could be as the angels are) comes when we learn to love as God loves, or in a similar way. In my viewpoint purgation is just the seperation of us from sin and the desire to sin. Illumination is the further giving of grace which comes to fill that void with faith, hope and charity, mainly charity. I think this is the view of John of the Cross in his books and of Walter Hilton in his Scale of Perfection. I can’t speak for any of the others.In my idea God calls us first by revealing His truth to the soul which is illumination, then that causes us such pain we repent and then cooperate and purge through the help of that recieved grace that is purgation until we are made ready for God to draw us into union.
Am I having a problem with semantics? I understand the Doctors of the Church say I am wrong but hey, questioning isn’t a sin.
Yes, it is good to question if one is a seeker of eternal Truth, but to override Truth in favor of one’s own opinion and then circulate it using the bible to substantiate a personal insight, does a lot of harm to the faithful.Am I having a problem with semantics? I understand the Doctors of the Church say I am wrong but hey, questioning isn’t a sin.
Darin, you have posted frequently on the forum a lot of things that would fall under the category of “private revelations,” obtained in your mystical prayer life. It is not a sin to share them, but it is not wise to ascribe them to the bible. Better, probably, to just say that it is simply your own opinion.Thats the way I see it too. I think the bible agrees with us too.
Look at this:
Birth-40 days-Presentation
Baptism-40 days-Ministry
Resurrection-40 days-Ascension
CaroleThe process of transubstantiation also outlines the mystical life as a four-part transformation of a person through Purgation, Illumination, Dark-Night and Union.