30% of Palestinians support Hamas

[Lance]

RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party came out ahead in Palestinian local elections on Thursday but candidates from the militant Hamas group also scored gains, preliminary results showed.

Of the 104 local councils up for grabs in the occupied West Bank, Fatah won control of 61 compared with 28 for Hamas and 15 for other factions, Jamal al-Shobaki, head of the Higher Commission for Local Elections, told Reuters.

The results were in line with opinion polls that gave Hamas about 30 percent support, pointing to big gains when it takes part in January parliamentary elections.

ADMIN EDIT: link found
[today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-09-29T212023Z_01_BAU674956_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST.xml](http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2005-09-29T212023Z_01_BAU674956_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST.xml)

Since Hamas is a terrorist organization does this mean that 30% of Palestinians support terrorism as a political tool? That’s the way it looks to me.

 

[Hospitaller]

Lance:

Since Hamas is a terrorist organization does this mean that 30% of Palestinians support terrorism as a political tool? That’s the way it looks to me.

Rather seems like it.

 

[cute2904]

Hospitaller:

Rather seems like it.

 

[cute2904]

What about the 70%? Are they against hamas or, they are hamas themselves?

 

[anon50111284]

PROBLEM: no link to article

ACTION: Thread closed

 

[anon50111284]

Link Found.
Thread Re-opened.

 

[Edris]

Lance:

Since Hamas is a terrorist organization does this mean that 30% of Palestinians support terrorism as a political tool? That’s the way it looks to me.

How about we talk about the 51% of americans that support Bush.

 

[Franze]

Edris:

How about we talk about the 51% of americans that support Bush.

Bush rules that americans suicides or bomber civil objectives? and the best one, is making it for a religion?
Please don´t joke.

 

[Edris]

Franze:

Bush rules that americans suicides or bomber civil objectives? and the best one, is making it for a religion?
Please don´t joke.

mmm…I’M NOT.

bushwatch.org/evangelist.htm

“Christian theologians are wary when Bush uses the words of Jesus to draw neat lines and challenge the whole rest of the world: if you are not for us, or with us, you are against us. Without question, belief in American democracy as one of God’s blessings is part of the move against Iraq. But, as theologians in a number of faiths remind us, the demonization of the enemy—an “us and them” mentality—can inhibit self-examination and repentant action, critical components of any faith.” marty

EVANGELICAL BUSH’S IRAQ WAR IS “DRESS REHERSAL FOR ARMAGEDDON” SAYS HEAD OF JERUSALEM PRAYER TEAM

"Some Americans may worry about an evangelical crusader controlling the world’s biggest nuclear arsenal, but religion - even the fundamentalist variety - is generally considered a good thing in the U.S. Certainly, focusing on religion helps keep attention away from other more contentious motives for invading Iraq, such as oil or world domination. " mc quaig

read the the whole thing, the link is up there.

"About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by coalition forces, according to the first reliable study of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts…"

guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1338749,00.html

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

General Reminder:

This discussion has strayed from its original topic of Palestinians supporting Hamas. Please return to the original topic under discussion. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[Lance]

Edris:

How about we talk about the 51% of americans that support Bush.

Edris,
If you want to talk about American support for our president please open another thread on that subject. I want to know how the 30% of Palestinians who support Hamas can reconcile that with what you, Meedo, Karin and others claim is true Islam, given that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I don’t doubt for one moment that none of the Muslims who are posting here are not suicide bombers and that they don’t support them. I do think moderate Muslims have a major task in front of them to convience that 30% that they are wrong. What do you think moderate Muslims and Christians have to do to change them? Don’t tell us to give up our support of Israel because that is not negotiable. If we can not have peace as long as American supports Israel then we are in for a long period of enmity between America and Islam.

 

[Edris]

Lance:

Edris,
If you want to talk about American support for our president please open another thread on that subject. I want to know how the 30% of Palestinians who support Hamas can reconcile that with what you, Meedo, Karin and others claim is true Islam, given that Hamas is a terrorist organization. I don’t doubt for one moment that none of the Muslims who are posting here are not suicide bombers and that they don’t support them. ** I do think moderate Muslims have a major task in front of them to convience that 30% that they are wrong.** What do you think moderate Muslims and Christians have to do to change them? Don’t tell us to give up our support of Israel because that is not negotiable. If we can not have peace as long as American supports Israel then we are in for a long period of enmity between America and Islam.

   I don't know where to start.  The Palastinian-Isreali conflict is very complicated.   You can't simply ask how can we convince those 30% that they are wrong.   First of all let me tell you,  I'm a Palestian-Canadian,   born in Lebanon.   I have seen closely what the isrealis can do; for every suicide attack that hamas commits,  there are 10 massacres commited by the isrealis.   It's like a vicious cycle down there.   Maybe you'll tell me ya but Hamas is doing it in the name of islam,   same as the israelis, everything they do is based on their religion.   Hamas simply is defending it's land,  suicide bombing is against islam,  but they think it's right because that's all they can do.   If hamas or other groups stops fighting and surrender their weapons,  the israelis will simply annihilate them,  and they can do it,  as they have done to many palastinian refugee camps in the past.  I was in Lebanon, when the massacre of "Sabra & Chatila camps"  took place.  The israeli army lead by now Prime Minister (Ariel Sharon),  (he was a general at that time 1982),  where standing there not just watching but providing protection for Lebanese christians while they slaughtered every  man, woman, and child in that camp (note: there was not a single palastinian with a gun inside the camp).    In 2000, Ariel Sharon visited the Temple Mount in Jerusalem,  this started the al-aqsa uprising.   You might think what the ...a visit would cause an uprising,  this is because you don't know the history of sharon.......but imagine this "Binladen taking a tour in the Vatican",   how would the christians react.

     Anyways,  it's endless,  I know what hamas is doing is wrong and against islam,  but i don't know if anything can be done in that region.  One more thing,  don't rely on what you hear on the news,  it's a joke,  it's about 1 - 10 % of what really is going on there.

Peace

 

[Hospitaller]

Edris:

Hamas simply is defending it’s land,

I’m sure we’ve all heard that one before.

Even if it was their land, which it isn’t, their activities would still be wrong.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Lance:

Since Hamas is a terrorist organization does this mean that 30% of Palestinians support terrorism as a political tool? That’s the way it looks to me.

Please see the link the Israeli crimes and don’t blame hamas they defend their people:

answering-christianity.com/pali_torture.htm

So the terrorists those who occupied their country and they kill children everyday

 

[Hospitaller]

gurrato alaien:

Please see the link the Israeli crimes and don’t blame hamas they defend their people:

From what, exactly? Israeli women and children?
gurrato alaien:

So the terrorists those who occupied their country and they kill children everyday

I presume you’re referring to Hamas.

 

[gurrato_alaien]

Hospitaller:

From what, exactly? Israeli women and children?:

From the killers the criminals Israeli army and what about the Palestinians’s women and children? have you seen the link above?

Hospitaller:

I presume you’re referring to Hamas.

no I am referring to killers Israel

 

[Hospitaller]

gurrato alaien:

From the killers the criminals Israeli army and what about the Palestinians’s women and children? have you seen the link above?

I saw it. Sad and unfortunate though that is, Israel would not be undertaking such counter-strikes in the first place if Palestinian terrrorists weren’t killing Israeli women and children.

The Israelis have no intention of deliberately killing women and children (who are deliberately grouped around likely targets by Hamas to maximize civilian casualties).

The Palestinians do.
gurrato alaien:

no I am referring to killers Israel

I’m well aware of that. Merely pointing out that the real murderers are in Hamas.

 

[jcaz]

Hospitaller,

My gut feeling tells me this is a waste, as you have shown yourself time and time again to be extremely biast, even when facts are presented.

But who knows, people can change.

So who’s land is it? That is up for debate. If Mexicans believed in a religion that told them that Texas was their homeland, would you believe Texas belonged to them, just cause their religion said so? Who was there first? Also up for debate.

So let us discuss some facts if we may.

Because we are living in a global world, where the actions of one country can affect the several others, we have made laws to govern what we can and what we cannot do around the world, in the same way, the federal and state governments have made laws to govern what we (and they) can and cannot do, because verily, without laws, there would be total anarchy.

Countries have come together and created laws to say what other countries can and cannot do in given situations, and these are laws that cannot simply be dismissed. Just like you cannot simply dismiss the speeding law.

The Geneva Conventions state that it is ILLEGAL under international law to occupy a country and take territory as a result of a way. This is ILLEGAL. Now, if you are ignorant of the subject, you will outcry, “no it is not.” So why do we simply not go and look at the facts. You can begin by reading the Geneva Conventions.

I will provide you several links to the United Nations webpage, where Security Council Resolutions were made saying that Israel MUST leave the occupied lands IMMEDIATELY. These resolutions were made back in 1967 and onwards.

Here’s the well-known security council resolution 242. Notice that America, of course, voted “YES” on this resolution. It was unanimous that Israel MUST leave the occupied lands. Why? Because occupying territory via war is ILLEGAL.

Here’s resolution 338. from 1973. And again, ALL the voting countries voted “YES” including America.

And this issue is constantly revisited, almost yearly.and even as recently as 2002, the security council made another resolution on Israel and Palestine. Here you go. Please note that EVEN AMERICA VOTES “YES” in support of the resolution, because bottom line, regardless of one’s ignorance, regardless of what the media says, BOTTOM LINE, Israel is ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING land aquired by war!!!

This is ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW!!!

NO ONE, and I restate NO ONE, not even the media, denies this. NO ONE. It simply is not talked about. Hey, why talk about the FACT that Israel is occupying someone else’s land when we can talk about how those refugees are trying to fight back! Oh my, how surprising! (sarcasm intended).

So once you accept this fact, and once you choose to stop being so biased towards one country, and once you are willing to look at the facts present by an international governing body, one that even OUR COUNTRY VOTES IN, ONLY THEN can one have a normal open dialogue with you.

 

[jcaz]

I was going to stop typing, as I’m WAAAY too busy for this. But when people make such INSANE claims and such biast (or hopefully simply misinformed) statements, it is hard not to.

Originally posted by Hospitaller:

Sad and unfortunate though that is, Israel would not be undertaking such counter-strikes in the first place if Palestinian terrrorists weren’t killing Israeli women and children.

COUNTER STRIKES? Are you kidding?

Okay, let’s step back for a moment. Because in order to understand who is truly “counter-striking” we need to see who the oppressor is. So let us step back and assume ALL violence were to stop. COMPLETE STOP. At this exact moment in hypothetical time, is there an oppressor? Is someone still being oppressed?

OF COURSE! How? Because someone’s land is still BEING OCCUPIED ILLEGALLY! This is what you people fail to understand. Hate palestinians for all I care. Go and Love the Jews for all I care. But don’t turn a blind, ignorant eye to the facts of international law. As mentioned earlier, NO ONE DENIES THAT ISRAEL IS ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING PALESTINIAN LANDS.

So realize how insane it is to say that Isreal is doing a counter strike, implying Palestinians are the ones in the wrong. Israel is holding their lands and their homes, HOMES THAT PEOPLE HAVE DEEDS TO! Yet these people have become refuges in their own country. So verily, it is the Palestinians who ARE WORTHY of fighting back, and it is they, AND ONLY THEY, who are counter-striking.

Now, is their method of fighting back, which was part of this original post, correct? Is suicide bombing correct? ABSOLUTELY NOT. It is against Islaam. These people, although they may deny it because of their own ignorance, are going against the teachings of Islaam, and we have provided you ample evidence for this.

But until one is willing to set aside all biases and really willing to go study the issue IN DETAIL and to really get inside the minds of these people, Israeles and Palestinians, and really go see the hate and the crimes ON BOTH SIDES, one can never truly understand the actions of either party.

 

[Hospitaller]

I wish StillSmallVoice was around. It would be interesting to get his (name removed by moderator)ut on this.

I was going to write a very short reply, but this caught my eye, among other things:

jcaz:

Hate palestinians for all I care. Go and Love the Jews for all I care.

What’s interesting in this comment is that first, you seem to be implying that I must hate Palestinians, and secondly, that “loving Jews” is a negative action.

jcaz:

So who’s land is it? That is up for debate. If Mexicans believed in a religion that told them that Texas was their homeland, would you believe Texas belonged to them, just cause their religion said so? Who was there first? Also up for debate.

I would believe that the land belonged to whoever could control it, presently the Americans, of course.

The Israelis currently maintain control over Israel, hence it is their land. Should they ever be driven into the sea, as some Palestyinian rhetoric seems to suggest would be the preferred conclusion to the whole affair, then the Palestinians (or rather, whichever nearby state is supporting them) would presumably control the land, which is an unlikely event given Israel’s military expertise.

jcaz:

As mentioned earlier, NO ONE DENIES THAT ISRAEL IS ILLEGALLY OCCUPYING PALESTINIAN LANDS.

I don’t believe in international law. as I said, the only real arbiter in such cases is a nation’s military capacity.

I would ask though, do you think that the various and sundry attempts to invade Israel by its neighbors were illegal? I’m curious to know.