33,000 ?

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by ltwin
“Trying to determine what is essential Christian belief” is not a problem for Protestantism. Protestants agree that “essential Christian belief” is found in Holy Scripture. (Mormons don’t believe this, so they aren’t and cannot be Protestants.) The problem is that different Protestant denominations read Holy Scripture in different ways and therefore come to different conclusions about what is essential belief.

That is a big problem. In fact the inability to have in my opinion a workable means of determining what is essential is one reason I became Catholic. The problem as I see it is akin to saying we can agree to play football but we aren’t sure what the rules are.

One thing that both sides have in common is that, as we mature over our lives, we get to points where we need to give up some nice simple ideas. Scott Hahn, for example, when he started questioning his Protestant faith, found (with a bit of a shock, I think) that he was following “a fallible list of infallible books”.

 

[ltwin]

So the councils could have erred when proclaiming the Trinity. The Mormons could be right.

The Trinity is one area the councils got right, which can be proven from Scripture.

 

[Della]

The Trinity is one area the councils got right, which can be proven from Scripture.

Well, not so much. If it were as simple as being able to prove it from Scripture there’d be no Oneness anything. The very reason the Church held a Council to define the Trinity is that the teaching can’t be proven. However, it can be supported by Scripture. There’s a big difference between the two approaches. Proving it means whoever attempts it claims the authority to interpret Scripture. The Church made her claim to that authority based on Christ establishing his Church on Peter and the Apostles–a living reality not merely what was written in Matthew.

What authority does anyone else have except to say they think they ought to have it–with no proof from Scripture for that idea at all. If we need proof from Scripture for everything we believe (such as the authority to determine matters of faith and morals), a good many things we believe without question would have to be reviewed. And that’s what’s happening in our day. Heresies long settled are once again in vogue because everyone believes he has the authority to decided doctrine based on his personal interpretation of Scripture.

This is why there are so many sects, denominations, groups, communities, etc. all vying for our souls. I think 33,000 is far too small a number since anyone and everyone can believe whatever he pleases as if God gave him that authority. Is it any wonder the secular world is winning the battle for hearts and minds when they’re merely doing what so many Christians believe they have the right to do–determine for themselves what they should believe and what is right for them to do/not do.

 

[BobCatholic]

What is a denomination? It was badly defined.

I’d define it using a principle: A group of believers with a common creed with a common hierarchy that can enforce that common creed.

Since each “independent” church who has no further hierarchy, then each church location is a denomination. The pastor rules. 22,000 right there.

But hold on. There are certain protestant denominations who believe the same as the “independents” - such as Presbyterians, Baptists, Congregational, “Bible Church” and others - when the umbrella group has no authority to demand conformance to one set of doctrines - then each local church location is a denomination of itself - just like the independents.

When the First Baptist Church splits on doctrine and now there’s the First and Second Baptist Church in a city, that’s two denominations, but this article calls them one denomination. Even if both are affiliated with the umbrella group Baptist Church of region X because the umbrella group has no authority to overrule the pastor’s doctrine.

So, the 33,000 number is actually a HUGE UNDERCOUNTING.

Then there’s the churches who preach “me and Jesus” doctrine. If that is the case, each “me and Jesus” believer is their own denomination! Even more undercounting.

 

[gus]

What is a denomination? It was badly defined.

I’d define it using a principle: A group of believers with a common creed with a common hierarchy that can enforce that common creed.

Since each “independent” church who has no further hierarchy, then each church location is a denomination. The pastor rules. 22,000 right there.

But hold on. There are certain protestant denominations who believe the same as the “independents” - such as Presbyterians, Baptists, Congregational, “Bible Church” and others - when the umbrella group has no authority to demand conformance to one set of doctrines - then each local church location is a denomination of itself - just like the independents.

When the First Baptist Church splits on doctrine and now there’s the First and Second Baptist Church in a city, that’s two denominations, but this article calls them one denomination. Even if both are affiliated with the umbrella group Baptist Church of region X because the umbrella group has no authority to overrule the pastor’s doctrine.

So, the 33,000 number is actually a HUGE UNDERCOUNTING.

Then there’s the churches who preach “me and Jesus” doctrine. If that is the case, each “me and Jesus” believer is their own denomination! Even more undercounting.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Trinity is one area the councils got right, which can be proven from Scripture.

With due respect I do not think scripture can prove it. You still have to depend on the teaching of the ECFs/Church and their interpretation of the scripture to say so.

At the most you can refer to the scripture and then make personal interpretation to say it is in the scripture. It is no proof at all.