38 hard questions for Bible Christians

[Prodigal_Son1]

Okay again read this, and pay close attention to the areas i bold…

And again i ask.

Doesn’t any man mean any man?

If you’ll read all of the letter to the Corinthians, you’ll see Paul is giving instructions to the men of the Church. We can learn much by reading those instructions, it gives us understanding into the things the men of the Church teach us. We cannot take everything written to men of authority and assume an authority to ourselves. The men of the Church wrote scriptures and understood them. They explained those interpretations to their successors and those successors passed it on, with the scriptures, to their successors.

If we took the single verse you provide, we then have to decide about those scriptures that appear to conflict and we know there are no conflicting scriptures. One verse does not override others.

So paying close attention to the parts you bolded, it applies to the men of the Church that the letter was written too. You also bolded the part, ‘if anyman thinks himself to be a prophet’.

Paul wrote to the Churches, let’s look at another part of the letter where he wrote the following.

**1Co 12:28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? **

He had already told them that, ‘God indeed hath set some in the Church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors.’ God set men of authority in the Church, first by His own appointment/ordination, secondly by the authority He gave the men of the Church to appoint/ordain.

Now, let’s look at the verse immediately preceding the verse you provided.

1Co 14:36 Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you?

Did the word of God come out of your? Or came it only unto you? The word is for all, of the body of Christ, which is His Church. It is not for each and every person individually, especially when it’s evident there are different interpretations. Different interpretations are individual revelations of the word. Can the different interpretations be correct?

 

[Sarah_Angel]

Doesn’t any man mean any man?

Any man has the right to study Scripture in his personal prayer time. I’ve recently discovered the joy that is enlightening myself with Scripture study.

However, that does not mean that we can make up our own interpretation and go with it if it contradicts the Catholic Church’s teachings.

After all, Satan uses Scripture as a tool for drawing ourselves away from the Lord. It is so powerful and such a blessing that Satan wants to use it against us. False interpretation leads us away from the Truth. I know that sounds obvious, but it needs to be said.

If you are studying Scripture in your personal prayer time and come across any verses that you do not understand, seek help, either on these forums or ask someone who is more well-versed with Scripture than yourself.

Fortunately, because of previous knowledge of Scripture and Sacred Tradition, that makes it easier to interpret Scripture correctly on your own (with guidance from the Holy Spirit, of course). But if you don’t understand something, try not to make up an answer right away.

 

[NDfan]

The following questions for “Bible Christians” was taken from Catholic Convert.com (most were written by David Palm). I dont expect answers to all of them but i am sure on reading them you will agree the sola scrpture is completly alien to Christianity
belief?

Tim your name suites you well because it’s clear you don’t understand what sola scriptura means. Perhaps you are confused

Maybe you should start there first and then realize how reformers held tradition and scripture together.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

If you’ll read all of the letter to the Corinthians, you’ll see Paul is giving instructions to the men of the Church. We can learn much by reading those instructions, it gives us understanding into the things the men of the Church teach us. We cannot take everything written to men of authority and assume an authority to ourselves. The men of the Church wrote scriptures and understood them. They explained those interpretations to their successors and those successors passed it on, with the scriptures, to their successors.

If we took the single verse you provide, we then have to decide about those scriptures that appear to conflict and we know there are no conflicting scriptures. One verse does not override others.

So paying close attention to the parts you bolded, it applies to the men of the Church that the letter was written too. You also bolded the part, ‘if anyman thinks himself to be a prophet’.

Paul wrote to the Churches, let’s look at another part of the letter where he wrote the following.

**1Co 12:28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? **

He had already told them that, ‘God indeed hath set some in the Church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors.’ God set men of authority in the Church, first by His own appointment/ordination, secondly by the authority He gave the men of the Church to appoint/ordain.

Now, let’s look at the verse immediately preceding the verse you provided.

1Co 14:36 Or did the word of God come out from you? Or came it only unto you?

Did the word of God come out of your? Or came it only unto you? The word is for all, of the body of Christ, which is His Church. It is not for each and every person individually, especially when it’s evident there are different interpretations. Different interpretations are individual revelations of the word. Can the different interpretations be correct?

So your argument is that Paul said any man but really meant, if your leaders think themselves spiritual let them acknowledge that these are God’s commands that i write to you???

WHY wouldn’t he have said that? after all in the same letter as you pointed out he goes to some length to show there are different gifts spiritually placed upon different members of the community at corinth.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So your argument is that Paul said any man but really meant, if your leaders think themselves spiritual let them acknowledge that these are God’s commands that i write to you???

WHY wouldn’t he have said that? after all in the same letter as you pointed out he goes to some length to show there are different gifts spiritually placed upon different members of the community at corinth.

Show me, in scriptures, where ‘any man’ appointed or ordained themselves to a position of authority?

Show me, in scriptures, where ‘any man’ who was not appointed or ordained, appointed or ordained another to a position of authority in the Church?

Also, please address the other scriptures being provided. Peter warns of Paul’s writings being wrested by unlearned, unstable and unwise, even to their own destruction. How do we reconcile that against the ‘verse’ you provided as support that each and every individual should be able to interpret scriptures for themselves. Also, you have not addressed the differences of interpretations by different people and all claiming guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Paul speaking to those and telling them that God hath set some in authority over the Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

WHY wouldn’t he have said that? after all in the same letter as you pointed out he goes to some length to show there are different gifts spiritually placed upon different members of the community at corinth.

What is so hard to understand that the Church was in it’s beginning stages and men of the Church had to be instructed in their own faith and how they could have confidence in the things they taught.

Remember, Christ spoke the following, only to the Apostles. He was telling them He was about to suffer and be taken from them. He had to teach, even them, how they could have confidence in His earthly absence.

**Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever:

Joh 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.**

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Show me, in scriptures, where ‘any man’ appointed or ordained themselves to a position of authority?

Show me, in scriptures, where ‘any man’ who was not appointed or ordained, appointed or ordained another to a position of authority in the Church?

.

1 cor 9:1
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

1 cor 9:1
Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not the result of my work in the Lord? 2Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

Surely you’re not saying Paul appointed/ordained himself? Christ chose Paul and sent him to a disciple to receive the imposition of hands.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

What is so hard to understand that the Church was in it’s beginning stages and men of the Church had to be instructed in their own faith and how they could have confidence in the things they taught.

Remember, Christ spoke the following, only to the Apostles. He was telling them He was about to suffer and be taken from them. He had to teach, even them, how they could have confidence in His earthly absence.

**Joh 14:16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever:

Joh 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

Joh 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you.**

It is amazing to me the great lengths you’ll go to twist the very words of scripture to fit your own understanding of theology.

 

[NDfan]

Surely you’re not saying Paul appointed/ordained himself? Christ chose Paul and sent him to a disciple to receive the imposition of hands.

Prodigal forgive me for entering into the middle of the conversation. How do you personally feel about the Didache? We both know it’s not part of scripture but it’s believed to have been written by the Apostles.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It is amazing to me the great lengths you’ll go to twist the very words of scripture to fit your own understanding of theology.

How is that twisting?

Are points being raised too hard to address?

Why resort to accusations of twisting, instead of discussing the differences in our interpretations?

Where in scriptures do you receive the authority to reject an interpretation and declare yours infallible?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Prodigal forgive me for entering into the middle of the conversation. How do you personally feel about the Didache? We both know it’s not part of scripture but it’s believed to have been written by the Apostles.

Hello NDfan,

I accept it as valid Christian writings of the times, as I do all writings of the early Church fathers, even though it’s not scriptures.

 

[Sarah_Angel]

Any man has the right to study Scripture in his personal prayer time. I’ve recently discovered the joy that is enlightening myself with Scripture study.

However, that does not mean that we can make up our own interpretation and go with it if it contradicts the Catholic Church’s teachings.

After all, Satan uses Scripture as a tool for drawing ourselves away from the Lord. It is so powerful and such a blessing that Satan wants to use it against us. False interpretation leads us away from the Truth. I know that sounds obvious, but it needs to be said.

If you are studying Scripture in your personal prayer time and come across any verses that you do not understand, seek help, either on these forums or ask someone who is more well-versed with Scripture than yourself.

Fortunately, because of previous knowledge of Scripture and Sacred Tradition, that makes it easier to interpret Scripture correctly on your own (with guidance from the Holy Spirit, of course). But if you don’t understand something, try not to make up an answer right away.

Generally when I post on these boards, no one responds to anything that I have to say.

But I’m curious to see myfavoritmartin’s response, if she has one. I don’t mean to interrupt the discussion or sound like a desperate attention-seeker, but in this situation I like to know if anyone has any objections to the things I say. I’m not an expert in anything Catholicism and it would help me to know if my line of thinking is correct or if I should consider other approaches. Thanks.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Surely you’re not saying Paul appointed/ordained himself? Christ chose Paul and sent him to a disciple to receive the imposition of hands.

The verse points out that while not all considered him an apostle the work of the Holy Spirit in the people of corinth sealed the fact that he was in a position they must acknowledge.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

How is that twisting?

Are points being raised too hard to address?

Why resort to accusations of twisting, instead of discussing the differences in our interpretations?

Where in scriptures do you receive the authority to reject an interpretation and declare yours infallible?

Here is the problem you refuse to accept that Paul point blank said ANY MAN.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

The verse points out that while not all considered him an apostle the work of the Holy Spirit in the people of corinth sealed the fact that he was in a position they must acknowledge.

Their conversion, through Paul’s preaching, sealed the fact that He was an Apostle. He preached the ONE truth. Protestantism has many truths, depending on which one you approach. All of them have slight to great differences in teaching. How can one have confidence they are following the right interpretation and not an interpretation of the unlearned, unstable or unwise?

I’m sure you know the story of Paul’s conversion and the fact that the Lord sent him to a disciple for the imposition of hands.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Here is the problem you refuse to accept that Paul point blank said ANY MAN.

Well, if I have a problem, why not address my questions? Or do you have a problem answering them?

Ok, let’s look at the verse you’re clinging too.

1Co 14:37 If any seem to be a prophet or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord.
1Co 14:38 But if any man know not, he shall not be known.

If anyone thinks themself to be a prophet, let him know the things that I write to you. He was telling them how to tell a false teacher by taking what was spoken to them by comparing them to what he had written them. That was a specific audience of the times. We can apply the same to today by other writings from Paul.

**2Th 3:6 And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us.

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that in all things you are mindful of me and keep my ordinances as I have delivered them to you.

2Th 2:15 (2:14) Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them. **

You have to realize to receive the context, one verse must be read in the context of the chapter, the chapter in context of the book, and the book in context with the other books. One single verse does not give a complete teaching.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It is amazing to me the great lengths you’ll go to twist the very words of scripture to fit your own understanding of theology.

You know, after thinking about it, think about this thought I had, You chose to take the route to accuse me of ‘twisting’, yet I am doing the best I can to articulate the interpretation from my perspective. You are not responding to any questions and have offered very little explanation of your interpretation, especially in light of other scriptures.

You seem to be providing single verses and ignoring passages I am providing, that would seem to conflict with what you have presented. How can we ignore one passage over another?

I am here for a discussion and not a single minded agenda. If you wish to truly be a participant in a discussion, and not viewed as one promoting an agenda, I’d recommend you answer questions or points raised.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

You know, after thinking about it, think about this thought I had, You chose to take the route to accuse me of ‘twisting’, yet I am doing the best I can to articulate the interpretation from my perspective. You are not responding to any questions and have offered very little explanation of your interpretation, especially in light of other scriptures.

You seem to be providing single verses and ignoring passages I am providing, that would seem to conflict with what you have presented. How can we ignore one passage over another?

I am here for a discussion and not a single minded agenda. If you wish to truly be a participant in a discussion, and not viewed as one promoting an agenda, I’d recommend you answer questions or points raised.

Let me do this so i’m not accused of taking one verse out of context and i’ll show you a number of instances in scripture that indicate scripture was made for and meant to be understood by ordinary people…Because the Bible itself indicates that it is intended for ordinary people to understand. The letters which are assembled together to form the New Testament were originally addressed to ordinary Christians or to entire congregations of people.

“Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus…**to all who are beloved **of God in Rome, called as saints.” Romans 1:1,7

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Colossians 1:1-2

"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:1

“And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.” Colossians 4:16

“I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.” I Thessalonians 5:27

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: the time is at hand.” Revelations 1:3

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let me do this so i’m not accused of taking one verse out of context and i’ll show you a number of instances in scripture that indicate scripture was made for and meant to be understood by ordinary people…Because the Bible itself indicates that it is intended for ordinary people to understand. The letters which are assembled together to form the New Testament were originally addressed to ordinary Christians or to entire congregations of people.

“Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus…**to all who are beloved **of God in Rome, called as saints.” Romans 1:1,7

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, to the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Colossians 1:1-2

"Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Savior Jesus Christ. 2

Peter 1:1

“And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that you likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.” Colossians 4:16

“I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.” I Thessalonians 5:27

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: the time is at hand.” Revelations 1:3

You seem to be missing my point. While he wrote to Churches, he included all so that they knew the teachings they received of the men of authority were teaching them was correct teachings. That’s why in the original verse you provided, I showed how it was to tell false teachers from correct teachers.

As I am trying to get across, the Bible is useful for all, but part of the context is who is being addressed and what is being said to them specifically. The verses from John 14 and 16, were spoken by Christ ONLY to His Apostles. Again, we can understand how to have confidence in those men of the Church by Christ’s instructions to them on how they could have confidence in themselves. If all could understand the scriptures alone, why would they need teachers?

In your response, I noticed you overlooked another question to you, yet again. I am reposting it in hopes you will try to provide an answer.

You seem to be providing single verses and ignoring passages I am providing, that would seem to conflict with what you have presented. How can we ignore one passage over another?