3rd marriage Vow - Mental Illness

[tonyh12]

We are both catholic (not young) seeing our parish priest. I can answer yes to all 3 marriage vows but my girlfriend who has avoidany personality is having trouble with no 3. The reason is she has avoidant personality so would prefer not to have children but if one should happen would do her best with me to bring th child up well in catholic faith.

To minimise likelyhood of a child she would have procreative sex only during her period.

Does the church thrown on this.

I am prepared not to have sex until her period.

SHe is also worried about having sex (virgin) with fear of her body so may at worse never be able to have full sex, though this is only a concern.

So there are 2 questions here as i as her fiance see:

1. if no sex never that would be invalid message (worse case scenario) but if i am prepared for this would it be ok to be married i assume so, in that it would just be grounds for annulment but be mature in years i woud not intend this option.
2. do we have to actively ‘want’ children before marrying or can we marry out of love/ wanting to support eachj other for eample, because of reason given, knowing tht if a child should come along we would intend to bring the child up in the faith.

Currently our PP is thinking we are too immature to marry! and is worried about her illness so thinks if we push this it would have to go to tribunal,but may be its just we misunderstand the situation which is rather complex i should imagine.

Thanks

 

[1ke]

Listen to your parish pastor, this is a complex situation with many aspects to it. He knows you and he knows her and is in the best position to advise you.

You will get all sorts of answers here, none of which matter since you say your pastor has determined marriage at this time is not advised and is seeking help from the tribunal regarding impediments to marriage.

 

[Xantippe]

Listen to your parish pastor, this is a complex situation with many aspects to it. He knows you and he knows her and is in the best position to advise you.

You will get all sorts of answers here, none of which matter since you say your pastor has determined marriage at this time is not advised and is seeking help from the tribunal regarding impediments to marriage.

Yes.

But here’s a small bonus point–sticking to intercourse only during the woman’s period is not a recognized NFP method, and might have a side problem of making the process especially unpleasant for your future wife.

If you are going to get married, do an actual NFP course and/or read an actual NFP book.

Best wishes!

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

We are both catholic (not young) seeing our parish priest. I can answer yes to all 3 marriage vows but my girlfriend who has avoidany personality is having trouble with no 3. The reason is she has avoidant personality so would prefer not to have children but if one should happen would do her best with me to bring th child up well in catholic faith.

To minimise likelyhood of a child she would have procreative sex only during her period.

Does the church thrown on this.

I am prepared not to have sex until her period.

SHe is also worried about having sex (virgin) with fear of her body so may at worse never be able to have full sex, though this is only a concern.

So there are 2 questions here as i as her fiance see:

1. if no sex never that would be invalid message (worse case scenario) but if i am prepared for this would it be ok to be married i assume so, in that it would just be grounds for annulment but be mature in years i woud not intend this option.
2. do we have to actively ‘want’ children before marrying or can we marry out of love/ wanting to support eachj other for eample, because of reason given, knowing tht if a child should come along we would intend to bring the child up in the faith.

Currently our PP is thinking we are too immature to marry! and is worried about her illness so thinks if we push this it would have to go to tribunal,but may be its just we misunderstand the situation which is rather complex i should imagine.

Thanks

It sounds like your pastor has a good handle on things. I’m impressed that he personally is handeling this. You should listen to him and follow his guidance.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Having relations during “that time” does not mean that she won’t get pregnant. Take an NFP class and/or buy a book on NFP. I have heard Marquette is a very good NFP method.

If your Parish Priest believes the two of you are too immature to marry in the church, then I would listen to that. I’m sure he has had a lot of experience with couples who want to marry in the Church.

As for whatever issues she has, perhaps she should see a psychologist and/or psychiatrist to try to get a handle on things, mentally as well as psychical concerns. Perhaps counseling with the parish priest would be a good idea, too.

 

[AdamP88]

We are both catholic (not young) seeing our parish priest. I can answer yes to all 3 marriage vows but my girlfriend who has avoidany personality is having trouble with no 3. The reason is she has avoidant personality so would prefer not to have children but if one should happen would do her best with me to bring th child up well in catholic faith.

To minimise likelyhood of a child she would have procreative sex only during her period.

Does the church thrown on this.

I am prepared not to have sex until her period.

SHe is also worried about having sex (virgin) with fear of her body so may at worse never be able to have full sex, though this is only a concern.

So there are 2 questions here as i as her fiance see:

1. if no sex never that would be invalid message (worse case scenario) but if i am prepared for this would it be ok to be married i assume so, in that it would just be grounds for annulment but be mature in years i woud not intend this option.
2. do we have to actively ‘want’ children before marrying or can we marry out of love/ wanting to support eachj other for eample, because of reason given, knowing tht if a child should come along we would intend to bring the child up in the faith.

Currently our PP is thinking we are too immature to marry! and is worried about her illness so thinks if we push this it would have to go to tribunal,but may be its just we misunderstand the situation which is rather complex i should imagine.

Thanks

Answer to 1 - If the marriage is never consummated then it is neither legally or religiously valid, as far as I know. For sacramental marriage, there is a requirement to consummate.

Answer to 2 - All sexual acts within marriage must be open to the possibility of life. If you don’t want children, or if you are actively trying to avoid children it may cause the validity or the marriage to be called into question.

 

[1ke]

Answer to 1 - If the marriage is never consummated then it is neither legally or religiously valid, as far as I know. For sacramental marriage, there is a requirement to consummate.

This is not accurate.

Answer to 2 - All sexual acts within marriage must be open to the possibility of life. If you don’t want children, or if you are actively trying to avoid children it may cause the validity or the marriage to be called into question.

This is best discussed with his pastor, who knows the situation.

 

[AdamP88]

This is not accurate.

Well it depends on the country for legality. In terms of Canon Law it is considered ratified (Consent for marriage given) but not consummated. So if the marriage breaks down at some point the Church may find that the marriage is null and can dissolve it.

 

[1ke]

In terms of Canon Law it is considered ratified (Consent for marriage given) but not consummated.

A ratum tantum marriage is a valid marriage. If both are baptized, it is a sacrament. It does not become valid or a sacrament with consummation, it already is both at the time the vows are exchanged.

A marriage that is ratum et consummatum becomes indissoluble.

Also there is no requirement to consummate.

So if the marriage breaks down at some point the Church may find that the marriage is null and can dissolve it.

Nullity and dissolution of the bond are different things.

A marriage that is unconsummated is still valid, but the valid marriage may be dissolved by the Pope.

 

[dans0622]

Well it depends on the country for legality. In terms of Canon Law it is considered ratified (Consent for marriage given) but not consummated. So if the marriage breaks down at some point the Church may find that the marriage is null and can dissolve it.

Hello,

Since *ratum *is sometimes translated as “ratified”, I can see why you would say that *ratum *means “consent for marriage given.” I’ve even seen canon lawyers explain it that way. That’s incorrect. A *ratum *marriage is a sacramental marriage. Canon 1061.1 says:

A valid marriage between baptized persons is said to be merely ratified (ratum tantum) if it is not consummated…

To the OP: If this was merely hypothetical, I’d give my own opinions. Since it’s not: as others have said, you have to depend on what your priest (or priests) tells you.

Dan

 

[tonyh12]

Thank you for every one who responded. Even though i gave an exclamation mark to the sentence about us be too immature, it was more a kind of lol as i am 50! (even though there is a serious side to it, and bearing in mind the document uses the wording ‘mature’). I came here seeking more info on marriage and have learned somethings like ratification vs consumation which has been helpful. We do indeed intend to listen carefully to our PP who we respect, he is a good and holy priest. Thanks again.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Thank you for every one who responded. Even though i gave an exclamation mark to the sentence about us be too immature, it was more a kind of lol as i am 50! (even though there is a serious side to it, and bearing in mind the document uses the wording ‘mature’). I came here seeking more info on marriage and have learned somethings like ratification vs consumation which has been helpful. We do indeed intend to listen carefully to our PP who we respect, he is a good and holy priest. Thanks again.

Maturity has nothing to do with age. I believe your pastor is worried about your girlfriend’s mental health, which can be an impediment to marriage if it leaves her unable to fulfill her marital obligations in the Church. Being open to life is one of those obligations.