3rd order X

[utunumsint]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me whats involved in becoming a third order x where x is whatever religious order has this third class. How do you become a member? Where can you find local information about this? What is involved?

Cheers,
Ut

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

The first thing would be to figure out what X is. What type of spirituality are you called to? There are lots of choices and most groups have some kind of extended family/lay group that’s affiliated with them.

A second thing to consider is what type of group is available locally. It’s possible to belong to a third order without being near the members of that order, but I think you would miss out on a lot.

Once you figure out which group you’re looking for, then simply contact them. There should be someone in a convent or monastery who is the contact person for their lay members. That person can explain the details for joining.

In my area there are two groups that I know of and possibly others. I’m a Benedictine Oblate. The monastery is 100+ miles away, but there is a local group of Oblates that meets monthly. A couple of the monks come for our meetings. And while the monastery is far enough that you can’t just pop in for prayers, it’s close enough to be able to go for visits.

The other group I know of is the Secular Franciscans. We have a Franciscan parish in town and the Seculars are affiliated with that.

Each of the groups has a program of formation for new members to help you learn about their way of life before you become a full member.

 

[beckycmarie]

I am in the process of applying for the Secular Expression of the Order of the Legion of Saint Michael, which is not a third order, but actually part of the full order which also includes hermits/monastics. The order is fairly new, I think there are maybe 2 other groups in the US with a similar structure.

If you want to learn more about the legion, here are a few links:

Mission Statement

Status in the Church

Secular Expression Info

Oblates of St. Michael

Other Associates and Friends of St. Michael

 

[utunumsint]

Thank you both for this information. I appreciate it. I’d like to know more about what is involved in third oder spirituality. We have a trappist monastery nearby (within 200 km), and an Augustinian community (around 400 km) as well. There is also a new community near Combermere, but I’m not sure they are monastic.

I’ll definitely check out the links.

Thank you again,
God bless,
ut

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I don’t know anything about Augustinians, but Trappists follow the Rule of St. Benedict so there should be a similarity to Benedictine Oblates.

You can read the Rule at osb.org/rb/text/toc.html Simply reading it won’t tell you everything, but it will give you a sense of what’s important in the life of a Benedictine.

You can get more information about Benedictine Oblates at osb.org/obl/index.html

There’s more information about Trappists here: osb.org/cist/index.html

Check out the web site for the monastery that’s near you and you’ll get an idea of what they have available for lay people. You can also give them a call.

 

[utunumsint]

I don’t know anything about Augustinians, but Trappists follow the Rule of St. Benedict so there should be a similarity to Benedictine Oblates.

You can read the Rule at osb.org/rb/text/toc.html Simply reading it won’t tell you everything, but it will give you a sense of what’s important in the life of a Benedictine.

You can get more information about Benedictine Oblates at osb.org/obl/index.html

There’s more information about Trappists here: osb.org/cist/index.html

Check out the web site for the monastery that’s near you and you’ll get an idea of what they have available for lay people. You can also give them a call.

That is St. Benedicts Rule! I studied that in University.

How do you adapt this to secular life and the married state?

God bless,
Ut

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

That is St. Benedicts Rule! I studied that in University.

How do you adapt this to secular life and the married state?

God bless,
Ut

You follow the Rule as much as you can. For example, the Rule talks a lot about prayer. As an Oblate you may not pray as often as they do in the monastery (or maybe you will). But you can include some part of the Liturgy of the Hours in your day. You can include Lectio Divina as part of your prayer life since that’s a very Benedictine form of prayer. You may attend Mass one or more days during the week.

The Rule talks a lot about living in a community. The ideas carry over to family life, work life, church life, etc. While you may not owe obedience to an abbot, you can look at other ways that people have authority over you and how you live with that authority. In turn, Benedict’s instructions to abbots may give you a new perspective on the people you have authority over.

The Rule talks about how a monk doesn’t own things. Obviously you can’t live without owning anything, but you can find ways to simplify your life and cultivate a level of detachment.

The Rule has a way of influencing your whole life.

 

[utunumsint]

You follow the Rule as much as you can. For example, the Rule talks a lot about prayer. As an Oblate you may not pray as often as they do in the monastery (or maybe you will). But you can include some part of the Liturgy of the Hours in your day. You can include Lectio Divina as part of your prayer life since that’s a very Benedictine form of prayer. You may attend Mass one or more days during the week.

The Rule talks a lot about living in a community. The ideas carry over to family life, work life, church life, etc. While you may not owe obedience to an abbot, you can look at other ways that people have authority over you and how you live with that authority. In turn, Benedict’s instructions to abbots may give you a new perspective on the people you have authority over.

The Rule talks about how a monk doesn’t own things. Obviously you can’t live without owning anything, but you can find ways to simplify your life and cultivate a level of detachment.

The Rule has a way of influencing your whole life.

Hmmm. I’ll have to go over my copy of the rule at home to see how I could make it fit into my life. I’ve always liked the rule.

Thank you again for this.

God bless,
Ut

 

[water]

Hmmm. I’ll have to go over my copy of the rule at home to see how I could make it fit into my life. I’ve always liked the rule.

Thank you again for this.

God bless,
Ut

I am not sure how you go over the rules and see if you could make it fit into your life.I suppose you understand this is a vocation.

Here is an example “Is God Calling You to the Secular Franciscan Order?”
nafra-sfo.org/is_god_calling.html

 

[utunumsint]

I am not sure how you go over the rules and see if you could make it fit into your life.I suppose you understand this is a vocation.

Here is an example “Is God Calling You to the Secular Franciscan Order?”
nafra-sfo.org/is_god_calling.html

Yes. I see your point. This is not a trivial matter.

My wife has recently become interested in Opus Dei, but I don’t feel called to this particular vocation. However, the idea of being part of a community appeals to me, so I am researching it, with the kind help I’m getting from you people on this forum.

I realize this is not a “do it yourself” thing.

God bless,
Ut

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Hmmm. I’ll have to go over my copy of the rule at home to see how I could make it fit into my life. I’ve always liked the rule.

There is a monk named Br. Jerome Leo who sends out a daily reflection on the Rule. One of his great talents is showing how the Rule applies to the lives of Oblates. You can get more information or subscribe to his reflections at stmarysmonastery.org/HolyRule.htm

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites is a 3rd order. However, they are refereed to as the Secular Order, instead of 3rd order in order to distinguish between religious and non religious.

Is structured as;

1st Order, priest

2nd Order, Brothers and Nuns

3rd Order, priest who remain in their current state, i.e. diocesan priest.

Pope John Paul II, was a 3rd order Discalced Carmelite.

Secular Order, lay people.

First off, you have to pray and ask the Lord where he wants you.

When my wife and myself first got interested in a 3rd order, we were looking for a Franciscan order, but there were none around our area. So, we gave it up and continued to pray. Then one day, my wife was cleaning out a draw full of junk, and for some reason there was a 4 year old church bulletin from our parish. A OCDS member of our parish, had placed an ad on the OCDS group that she belong to. We contacted her, and she brought us to our first meeting. This is where God wanted us.

So don’t make a move before praying about it.

God Bless
Jim

 

[beckycmarie]

Yes. I see your point. This is not a trivial matter.

My wife has recently become interested in Opus Dei, but I don’t feel called to this particular vocation. However, the idea of being part of a community appeals to me, so I am researching it, with the kind help I’m getting from you people on this forum.

I realize this is not a “do it yourself” thing.

God bless,
Ut

I haven’t researched all the groups, but I’d think each one has a period of time when the person is an aspirant/novitiate before joining formally. This helps them discern whether or not they are truly called to be a part of that order. I know the OLSM has a minimum 3-year formation period before making perpetual profession.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Its best that people who are searching for a 3rd order, stay with those who are part of an established order, which has Papal approval, such as Benedictines, Franciscans, Discalced Carmelites, etc.

There are some new orders that have started up around the country, and they do not have Papal approval. Those orders are not secure and can be shut down, should a Bishop desire to do so. I know of one where this happened.

You wouldn’t want to go through 5 years of formation only to find out that your community is disbanded.

God Bless
Jim

 

[utunumsint]

Its best that people who are searching for a 3rd order, stay with those who are part of an established order, which has Papal approval, such as Benedictines, Franciscans, Discalced Carmelites, etc.

There are some new orders that have started up around the country, and they do not have Papal approval. Those orders are not secure and can be shut down, should a Bishop desire to do so. I know of one where this happened.

You wouldn’t want to go through 5 years of formation only to find out that your community is disbanded.

God Bless
Jim

I know about this. According to cannon law, there are three levels of acceptance for an order:
1-Within a diocese by the approval of a bishop
2-Within a Country by the approval of a council of bishops
3-For the whole church by approval of the pope

I can see why you’d want to stick to number 3.

God bless,
Ut

 

[beckycmarie]

By the way, The OLSM, although not yet officially recognized, does have an Apostolic Blessing from Pope John Paul II, and is operating within the bounds of canon law. See the status in the church link in post #3 for more info.

 

[JReducation]

The Secular Order of Discalced Carmelites is a 3rd order. However, they are refereed to as the Secular Order, instead of 3rd order in order to distinguish between religious and non religious.

Is structured as;

1st Order, priest

2nd Order, Brothers and Nuns

3rd Order, priest who remain in their current state, i.e. diocesan priest.

Pope John Paul II, was a 3rd order Discalced Carmelite.

Secular Order, lay people.

First off, you have to pray and ask the Lord where he wants you.

When my wife and myself first got interested in a 3rd order, we were looking for a Franciscan order, but there were none around our area. So, we gave it up and continued to pray. Then one day, my wife was cleaning out a draw full of junk, and for some reason there was a 4 year old church bulletin from our parish. A OCDS member of our parish, had placed an ad on the OCDS group that she belong to. We contacted her, and she brought us to our first meeting. This is where God wanted us.

So don’t make a move before praying about it.

God Bless
Jim

Are you sure about the difference that you made between the first and second order?

Usually, the first order is friars (ordained and non clerical) and the second order is cloistered nuns, the third order is seculars (including diocesan priests) and religious in simple vows such as Carmelite Sisters.

I have never seen a mendicant family that distinguishes between ordained and non clerical friars.

The Discalced Carmelites are mendicant friars. The word friar = brother. Tt does make sesne to separate the ordained brothers from the lay brothers. They live the same rule, same life, same charism, same vows, same mission in the Church.

Check it out with your community. I can be mistaken.

I’m comparing them to the Franciscan Family.

Our family has:

1. Friars Minor (Capuchins, Conventuals and Observants) they are all Brothers and some are ordained, but continue to be Brothers.
2. Poor Clare Nuns: they are only nuns, no sisters.
3. Secular and Regular Franciscans: these are secular men and women including secular priests, religious in simple vows such as the Franciscan Sisters, the Eternal Word Missioanaries, the Franciscans of the Renewal and Franciscan Missionaries of Charity, Third Order Regular Friars

In the order of Friars Minor it is illegal to distinguish between those friars who are priests and those who are not. They have equal rights and the same life and vows.

The same goes for the Dominican Family. They are organized the same way.

The term third order came from the sequence in which they were founded. For example, in the Dominican Family the Friars are the Second Order and the Cloistered Dominican Nuns are the First Order. St. Dominic Founded them first.

The same happens with Mother Teresa’s Missionaries of Charity. The Sisters are the first order, the cloistered Missionaries of Charity are the second order and the Brothers are the third order. Now they have a fourth order, the Lay Missionaries of Charity.

But check out that breakdown of the OCD’s. I believe that the lay brothers are part of the Carmelite Friars with equal rights and vows. I would love to know.

JR

 

[JimR-OCDS]

JReducation

Are you sure about the difference that you made between the first and second order?

Usually, the first order is friars (ordained and non clerical) and the second order is cloistered nuns, the third order is seculars (including diocesan priests) and religious in simple vows such as Carmelite Sisters.

Yes you are correct.

The point I was trying to distinguish for Discalced Carmelites, is the difference between 3rd Orders and Secular Orders.

I believe we’re the only one’s refereed to as Secular Orders, all others are called 3rd Orders.

Jim

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I believe we’re the only one’s refereed to as Secular Orders, all others are called 3rd Orders.

I’m not an expert on Franciscans, but here locally the lay group is called Secular Franciscans.

 

[utunumsint]

I’m not an expert on Franciscans, but here locally the lay group is called Secular Franciscans.

That’s what they are called where I live as well. I contacted them, so I’ll be going to some of the meetings to see what I can see.

Thank you all for your help.

God bless,
Ut