4 suggestions for Protestants

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chrisg93

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Jesus hung naked on the Cross
Does the Bible say he hung naked on the Cross? I don’t think so! I don’t think you should ever say this again.

Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
A – The 10 Commandments have been replaced by Jesus, ie… “Thou shall not commit adultery” replaced by “ whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery”.
B – If we can display the 10 Commandments then sooner or later someone will be able to display the Koran.
C – Why spent so much time and effort on this issue? You tried your best, let it go already. Concentrate on conversion of sinners and the rest will follow.

You don’t need to do anything, just believe and you will be saved
This is true only in the sense that the Father draws us to himself in the first place. We must also repent, be baptized, obey Jesus, do good works and persevere until death. The Protestant emphasis on only the first part is incomplete and misleading.

Pray to be born again by admitting you are a sinner and asking Jesus to come into your heart
How about saying a better prayer such as… "Father, all powerful and ever living God, we do well always and everywhere to give you thanks through our Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, by suffering on the cross you freed me from unending death, and by rising from the dead you offered me eternal life. I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit descend upon me and remain with me forever. May Almighty God have mercy on me, forgive me my sins and bring me to everlasting life.”
 
chrisg93 said:
Jesus hung naked on the Cross
Does the Bible say he hung naked on the Cross? I don’t think so! I don’t think you should ever say this again.

Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
A – The 10 Commandments have been replaced by Jesus, ie… “Thou shall not commit adultery” replaced by “ whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery”.
B – If we can display the 10 Commandments then sooner or later someone will be able to display the Koran.
C – Why spent so much time and effort on this issue? You tried your best, let it go already. Concentrate on conversion of sinners and the rest will follow.

You don’t need to do anything, just believe and you will be saved
This is true only in the sense that the Father draws us to himself in the first place. We must also repent, be baptized, obey Jesus, do good works and persevere until death. The Protestant emphasis on only the first part is incomplete and misleading.

Pray to be born again by admitting you are a sinner and asking Jesus to come into your heart
How about saying a better prayer such as… "Father, all powerful and ever living God, we do well always and everywhere to give you thanks through our Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, by suffering on the cross you freed me from unending death, and by rising from the dead you offered me eternal life. I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit descend upon me and remain with me forever. May Almighty God have mercy on me, forgive me my sins and bring me to everlasting life.”
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Easy, Big Fellah …

Maybe “naked on the Cross” isn’t literal. Think about it in a non-literal context and the expression is rather theologically intriguing, isn’t it?

Jesus didn’t come to abolish the law but fulfill it. The Catechism has a rather large chunk dedicated to the Decalogue.

The “faith only” statement can be clarified by the vast majority of Protestants. Talk to them about what they really mean by it. Though I too find it incomplete, sola fidelis doesn’t suggest a cavalier attitude between mankind and the Creator.

Your Eucharist prayer is of course beautiful, but there is certainly nothing wrong with confronting ones own place in God’s plan and admitting to being a sinner. The ‘Jesus Prayer’ from our Orthodox brothers is especially note worthy here.
 
chrisg93 said:
Jesus hung naked on the Cross
Does the Bible say he hung naked on the Cross?
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While the text does not include the word “naked”, it does include this:

When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom.
Code: 
"Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it."
  This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said,
“They divided my garments among them
and cast lots for my clothing.” So this is what the soldiers did.

So, if they took his clothes, including his undergarment, he had nothing to wear. Interestingly, this is also mentioned in Mt 27:35, Mk 15:24, and Lk 23:34, making it one of the few details upon which all of the Gospel accounts agree.
Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
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Sorry, but this is not Protestant doctrine. This is somebody’s attempt to impose Christianity upon their society.
A – The 10 Commandments have been replaced by Jesus, ie… “Thou shall not commit adultery” replaced by “ whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery”.
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Jesus stated that he did not come to replace the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:28 is an explication of the commandment, not a replacement of it.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5: 18)

It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law. (Luke 16:17)
B – If we can display the 10 Commandments then sooner or later someone will be able to display the Koran.
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Perhaps if we had more promulgation of the Ten Commandments and the Four Pillars and the Ten Wholesome Deeds, we might have less crime.
You don’t need to do anything, just believe and you will be saved
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This is not the doctrine of any of the main Protestant denominations; it is a minority viewpoint, like the Catholic extremists who think that all non-Catholics should be converted on pain of death. Most Protestants believe (or think that they believe) in sola scriptura, which means that they adhere to the Bible’s frequent injunctions to do good.
Pray to be born again by admitting you are a sinner and asking Jesus to come into your heart
How about saying a better prayer such as… "Father, all powerful and ever living God, we do well always and everywhere to give you thanks through our Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, by suffering on the cross you freed me from unending death, and by rising from the dead you offered me eternal life. I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit descend upon me and remain with me forever. May Almighty God have mercy on me, forgive me my sins and bring me to everlasting life.”
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Your prayer could very well be found in a Protestant evangelist’s tract.
 
Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
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Sorry, but this is not Protestant doctrine. This is somebody’s attempt to impose Christianity upon their society.

I can’t agree with you on this one, Mystophilus. The Ten Commandments aren’t specifically Christian. We Christians certainly believe in them and ought to follow them, but we didn’t introduce them to the world. Moses did.

As to imposing anything, what is being imposed is a false idea that the Constitution requires no mention of religion in our public institutions, such as courthouses. This is an interpretation that the founding fathers would have thought ridiculous. Indeed, it is ironic that the same Supreme Court that ruled the TCs are not to grace our courthouses have a representation of them in the Supreme Court building for all the world to see. It’s nothing more than a leftist attempt to eradicate religion altogether from the public forum not a defense of the so-called “separation of Church and state.”
 
You make a good point but I think the execution is a bit off.:hmmm:

Refine your idea some more and you’ll have an interesting thread here.:tiphat:
 
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Della:
I can’t agree with you on this one, Mystophilus. The Ten Commandments aren’t specifically Christian. We Christians certainly believe in them and ought to follow them, but we didn’t introduce them to the world. Moses did.As true as it certainly is that they were not originally Christian, Christianity assimilated them into itself and they became Christian at that point. The Catholic Encyclopedia locates that point as being in Jesus’ ministry: Matthew 5 and 19; I have not yet found the first reference to the Ten in a Christian text. Moreover, they are not all that Christianity assimilated. The cross, after all, was invented by the Romans, and that now belongs to Christianity. December 25 was the Saturnalia.

A large proportion of the words which you and I use are ones which English stole from other languages. This does not make them any less English now.
It’s nothing more than a leftist attempt to eradicate religion altogether from the public forum not a defense of the so-called “separation of Church and state.”
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What is the difference between those two things?
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You know, the ten commandments in the courthouse bothers me.

It seems like a criminal would benefit so much more from the commandments if he were exposed before he ended up at the courthouse.
 
I’m not sure I fully understood the point of this thread…I think I was reading wrong…

I, as a Catholic, have learned that Christ was most likely hung naked on the cross…I didn’t know that was strictly Protestant belief or even against Catholic belief. I was taught He was most likely hung naked because, in that era, a naked man was looked upon with utter disgust and deemed to be a worthless, unclean individual no better than a slave or beggar. The bible may not use the word “naked”, but it also doesn’t used the word Trinity…I think that Him being hung naked is implied with the time period and the state of his execution, aimed at complete humiliation. Further than that, I guess I don’t understand why it matters so much whether He was hung naked or partially clothed…it didn’t affect His sacrifice…He still died the same horrible death for the forgiveness of our sins, clothed or unclothed, right?

I support the Ten Commandments in courtrooms…I wasn’t really sure whether you were for or against that. Our country, our laws, our judicial systems, our government, our morals, our foundations…everything that built our nation was built on God…our laws reflect the laws of God, the base being the Ten Commandments…so why shouldn’t they be hung in courtrooms? To me, that’s a sign that God is still the base of the foundation of our country.

As for the other two, you should definitely develop those arguments, they could turn ino interesting discussions.
Like I said, I wasn’t really sure what you were saying with the first two, maybe I interpretted your point completely wrong, and I’m sorry if I did:)

God bless,
In Him,
Britty
 
Christ most probably hung without clothes.

There’s a deep catechisis in the Theology of the Body for this. That in his nakedness, He the new Adam was hung in front of God and humanity without the “fig leaf.” Recall that Adam realized he was naked and hid when there was no reason for shame until original sin. Christ, having no original sin was not shamed being naked as his oppressors desired. In this position he redeemed man’s original innocence. Christ redeemed man in all facets of his existence and this includes the redemption from malice. To me this makes me even more in awe and love for Christ. He did not save anything for himself. He gave us all and the pinnacle of this show of love is his hangging on the cross and utterly humiliated for love of me.

in XT.
 
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AquinasXVI:
Christ most probably hung without clothes.

There’s a deep catechisis in the Theology of the Body for this. That in his nakedness, He the new Adam was hung in front of God and humanity without the “fig leaf.” Recall that Adam realized he was naked and hid when there was no reason for shame until original sin. Christ, having no original sin was not shamed being naked as his oppressors desired. In this position he redeemed man’s original innocence. Christ redeemed man in all facets of his existence and this includes the redemption from malice. To me this makes me even more in awe and love for Christ. He did not save anything for himself. He gave us all and the pinnacle of this show of love is his hangging on the cross and utterly humiliated for love of me.

in XT.
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Oh, I **really ** liked this post - good job.
 
I guess nobody knows definitively if Jesus hung naked on the Cross. I read where he was supplied a loincloth in deferrence to the Blessed Mother who, of course, was present. I hope that is true. My original point was that the Evangelicals I am around use it for shock value of the nakedness, not as a devotion. They say it to create a mental image in the listener of very doubtful value. The devotion part of it as described doesn’t do a lot for me (maybe that’s my fault).

I also support the 10 Commandments in the Courtroom, but we should not waste a lot of time and energy fighting the government to take them down. If you look in the CCC each of the 10 Commandments is referenced to and superceeded by the Commandment of Jesus that is now in effect.

My original point of the simplistic prayer of “asking Jesus to forgive your sins and invite him into your heart” is that it is so simplistic. It’s missing the glory of God, it’s missing the Trinity, it’s missing the mercy, the love, the offer of eternal salvation and so many other things. It could be so much more powerful and effective.

Thanks,
Chris
 
b just b:

Thank you…but really we have to thank John Paul the Great. Just repeating what I’ve learned from him. Theology of the Body is blowing my mind the more I learn about it.

in XT.
 
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AquinasXVI:
b just b:

Thank you…but really we have to thank John Paul the Great. Just repeating what I’ve learned from him. Theology of the Body is blowing my mind the more I learn about it.

in XT.
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I forget who, but about a year ago I read an Orthodox Lay Theologian’s book on the Theology of the body. It was very good. I have read snippets of JP’s stuff on this and also think he’s pretty masterful. Ya know, I just really liked JP2.
 
chrisg93 said:
Jesus hung naked on the Cross
Does the Bible say he hung naked on the Cross? I don’t think so! I don’t think you should ever say this again.

Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
A – The 10 Commandments have been replaced by Jesus, ie… “Thou shall not commit adultery” replaced by “ whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery”.
B – If we can display the 10 Commandments then sooner or later someone will be able to display the Koran.
C – Why spent so much time and effort on this issue? You tried your best, let it go already. Concentrate on conversion of sinners and the rest will follow.

You don’t need to do anything, just believe and you will be saved
This is true only in the sense that the Father draws us to himself in the first place. We must also repent, be baptized, obey Jesus, do good works and persevere until death. The Protestant emphasis on only the first part is incomplete and misleading.

Pray to be born again by admitting you are a sinner and asking Jesus to come into your heart
How about saying a better prayer such as… "Father, all powerful and ever living God, we do well always and everywhere to give you thanks through our Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, by suffering on the cross you freed me from unending death, and by rising from the dead you offered me eternal life. I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit descend upon me and remain with me forever. May Almighty God have mercy on me, forgive me my sins and bring me to everlasting life.”
Click to expand...

Not to be mean but do you really think that a protestant is going to take your advice? Or are you just tryin to be mean and sarcastic?
 
Nothing was meant to be mean and sarcastic. Maybe I should have added “speaking the truth in love” and 'iron sharpens iron".

I hope a few people will think about what I’ve said and have some influence.

Thanks,
Chris
 
Chris:

What does ‘stripped of his garments’ mean? I would be more than happy to be censored, in fact I will censor myself from saying that sentence again if I ever saw the bible say that Christ was ‘hung on the cross with clothes’.

If the Romans were really that mean given all the beatings and the torture they put Christ through, do you think for one second that they will spare him that last humiliation of being naked?

It’s offensive to you because it’s an additional suffering that Christ had to endure. Naturally so because of our love for him. But that’s just it, he did endure all these things.

in XT.
 
Hi Aquinas,

Tradition says that Mary offered her veil to cover Jesus. Not all the Roman soldiers were cruel. The one who pierced Christ’s side became a saint didn’t he?

God bless

Jan
 
Hi Jan:

If Mother Mary had to use her veil to cover him, we have to then assume that he was indeed without clothes.

By the way, is it true that Catholicism is slowly but surely reviving in the UK.? I’ve heard this from a couple of sources one of which was Joseph Pearce.

in XT.
 
Hi,

-----“If Mother Mary had to use her veil to cover him, we have to then assume that he was indeed without clothes.”

From what I can remember reading Mary gave it to the Roman soldier just before they were about to remove his undergarments. The soldier having pity on a Mother handed it to Jesus to tie around him. Most crucifixes show the cloth tied in a knot at the side.

----“By the way, is it true that Catholicism is slowly but surely reviving in the UK.? I’ve heard this from a couple of sources one of which was Joseph Pearce.”

I’m not sure about this but we English Catholics are at the moment praying a Novena to bring England back to the faith.

Here is the famous Prophesy of Pope Leo 13th when he signed the rescript for the Restoration of the Shrine of Our Lady of Walsingham in 1897

“When England goes back to Walsingham, Our Lady will come back to England”

God bless

Jan
 
chrisg93 said:
Jesus hung naked on the Cross
Does the Bible say he hung naked on the Cross? I don’t think so! I don’t think you should ever say this again.

Display the 10 Commandments in the Courthouse
A – The 10 Commandments have been replaced by Jesus, ie… “Thou shall not commit adultery” replaced by “ whoever looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery”.
B – If we can display the 10 Commandments then sooner or later someone will be able to display the Koran.
C – Why spent so much time and effort on this issue? You tried your best, let it go already. Concentrate on conversion of sinners and the rest will follow.

You don’t need to do anything, just believe and you will be saved
This is true only in the sense that the Father draws us to himself in the first place. We must also repent, be baptized, obey Jesus, do good works and persevere until death. The Protestant emphasis on only the first part is incomplete and misleading.

Pray to be born again by admitting you are a sinner and asking Jesus to come into your heart
How about saying a better prayer such as… "Father, all powerful and ever living God, we do well always and everywhere to give you thanks through our Lord Jesus Christ. Lord, by suffering on the cross you freed me from unending death, and by rising from the dead you offered me eternal life. I pray that the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit descend upon me and remain with me forever. May Almighty God have mercy on me, forgive me my sins and bring me to everlasting life.”
Click to expand...
  1. It is possible for Jesus to have hung naked on the cross but uncertain.
  2. A)The Ten Commandments have never been replaced. They have been summarized in the two greatest commandments: Love The Lord your God with all your mind, body and soul and Love one another as I have loved you.
    B) Says who? you?
    C) The Ten commandments are extremely important to remember( as I said are summed up in the 2 commandments) and help us to have a conversion of heart
  3. Agreed
  4. I don’t see what’s wrong with this
Personally I’d stop condemming protestants. Especially when you don’t seem to know alot about your own faith.
 
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