40,000 denominations...?

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I do not know how many of you on here have used this or believe this, but can we stop the lie that there are 40,000 protestant denominations? It is fairly well known that it is not true, but there are still some people that use it trying to disprove protestantism. I am a catholic, and using the false statistic does more harm than good. It comes from World Christian Encyclopedia, and according to this source, the Catholic church has 242 denominations. We all know this is not true.
 
I think it’s meant not to be taken literally.
The number 40 and variations thereof often refer to “worldly” things or inventions.
To say 40,000 would also be to say : those that have ventured far from the fold.
just my 2 cents
 
It’s not a lie. It depends on what the most important indicator of a denomination is.

The people who use the 30/40,000 number subscribe to the idea that the most important determination of a denomination is human authority.

With this definition, each non-denominational church is actually a denomination until itself.

So, it’s not a lie. But people need to understand when to properly use that argument and why that argument exists. The argument is a powerful argument when arguing authority.

And for many Catholic Apologists, the root cause of all schism is authority. So that’s why that argument is used, but it should be used in proper context, not in an improper context (which it often is).

I pray this is helpful.

God Bless.
 
Well, I think it is meant to be taken literally, since in recent years the numbers have been 30,000; 33,000; 36,000; etc so I think it comes from that resource. I’m just saying that we need to check our facts before spewing something we heard that seems like it might help our case.
 
:roll_eyes:

I don’t think it’s anything we need to worry about. Just trying to apply some historical background, but never mind.
 
I agree with you that the number is inflated and people should stop using it, but I don’t think most people are being intentionally deceitful. When you hear the same statistic over and over again from many different sources, it’s easy to take for granted that it is true. Not everyone stops to fact check every single claim they make.
 
I have never seen that stat before. Who said it and where is it from
 
The first article that SuscipeMeDomine posted a link to actually summarizes the whole thing very well. It’s from the World Christian Encyclopedia. But their definition of a “denomination” is not so great. By their count, no denomination can cross country borders. So there is an Italian Catholic Church and a Brazilian Catholic Church, etc. According to them, there are 242 Catholic denominations.
 
I have seen a 28 000 a few days back on here. That number changes by the thousands in a matter of days.
 

Catholics may not like this guy but looking past that it explains a lot. From 16:00 on the video it explains many if this misconception.
 
I think a better argument, against Protestantism, isn’t the number of denominations, but the lack of unity amongst the denominations.
 
Right. As the author of the NCRegister article says, it doesn’t matter if there are 2 million denominations or 2. Anything more than 1 shows division that should not be there.
 
njmah16 said:
do not know how many of you on here have used this or believe this, but can we stop the lie that there are 40,000 protestant denominations? It is fairly well known that it is not true…
Click to expand...
Less well known is the fact that, by definition, there are as many Protestant denominations as there are Protestants. Some Protestants may agree with each other on points of doctrine, but that’s an accident of history rather than mutual submission to a common teaching authority.
 
By definition of what? Protesting at Speyer? Which is the origin of the term.

If you are meaning that each have their own ideas well then Catholics are in the same boat. Go around asking 10 random Catholics about Contraception. You will find quite a larger then expected percentage who would be Protesting against the Catholic Church.
 
But this thinking also doesn’t make sense.

From the top of my head you have Old Catholics, the Polish National Catholic Church the Orientals and the E Orthodox. These are not considered Protestant but still split.

So yes there have been many splits on the Protestant side which would be more than two. But how does one reconcile these when they also split? That’s also more than two.

Honestly the absolute number difference would be a better argument.
 
njmah16 said:
I do not know how many of you on here have used this or believe this, but can we stop the lie that there are 40,000 protestant denominations? It is fairly well known that it is not true, but there are still some people that use it trying to disprove protestantism. I am a catholic, and using the false statistic does more harm than good. It comes from World Christian Encyclopedia, and according to this source, the Catholic church has 242 denominations. We all know this is not true.
Click to expand...
Like any source, the information needs to be correct if the source is to be taken seriously. If one uses “denomination” as another word for division or sect, then when it comes to Protestantism, that number is big.

For example. From scripture

a person who is
αἱρετικὸν, factious, from [Titus 3:10-11] http://bibleapps.com/greek/141.htm “after admonishing him [ one who is αἱρετικὸν, factious,] once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, 11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned.” see also http://bibleapps.com/greek/139.htm for further explanation of αἱρετικὸν

Fast forward to the 16th century, and beyond That describes Protestantism… it does NOT describe Catholicism

Protestantism is one of the great conglomeration of heresies in history. The Great Heresies | Catholic Answers . It’s not just one heresy it’s many heresies. And each particular stand alone religious group even if it is less than 10 members, is it’s own organization, called a “church” in their vernacular, and as its own stand alone organization, it’s own “church”, beholding to them self alone, meaning it can be said they [each group] are their own denomination.
 
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MichaelP3 said:
By definition of what? Protesting at Speyer? Which is the origin of the term.

If you are meaning that each have their own ideas well then Catholics are in the same boat. Go around asking 10 random Catholics about Contraception. You will find quite a larger then expected percentage who would be Protesting against the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Protestants have no central focus of authority. They say that their authority is the Bible, but in reality it’s their personal opinion of what the Bible means combined with their subjective sense that they’re right, and if a Protestant doesn’t like what any other Protestant denomination teaches he can found his own and still rightly be called a Protestant. The phrase “in rebellion against the Protestant church” is meaningless, because there is no Protestant church against which to rebel! There are only ad hoc associations of Protestants who believe more or less similar things.

On the other hand, it’s easy to tell that someone is in rebellion against the Catholic Church, because it’s easy to identify the Church and know what it teaches. It’s possible to say that “this is the teaching of the Catholic Church, and faithful Catholics must agree with it”, but it’s not possible even in principle to say that about Protestants.
 
I read what you just wrote but it doesn’t answer this which was the basis for my reply.
neophyte said:
Less well known is the fact that, by definition, there are as many Protestant denominations as there are Protestants.
Click to expand...
 
MichaelP3 said:
But this thinking also doesn’t make sense.

From the top of my head you have Old Catholics, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Orientals and the E Orthodox. These are not considered Protestant but still split.
Click to expand...
True they aren’t Protestants, they are their own category.

Eastern Catholics are those in union with the pope.

schismatics OTOH, who use the name Catholic, are not the Catholic Church
40.png
MichaelP3:
So yes there have been many splits on the Protestant side which would be more than two. But how does one reconcile these when they also split? That’s also more than two.

Honestly the absolute number difference would be a better argument.
Click to expand...
See my previous post 40,000 denominations...? - #17 by MichaelP3
 
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