40% of babies born to unmarried women !!!

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severus68:
While I think this is a good post, I have to say that not all atheists believe in the survival of the fiittest.
Thank you! I did not mean to imply that but I can see how it could be read that way. My beef with the “survival of the fittest” type mentality (which isn’t just strictly an understanding of evolutionary biology, but has been appropriated by the eugenics movement and other “social Darwinists”) is more in the dehumanizing utilitarian view of the world, which is an atheistic view but far from the only one, as you point out. Mea culpa.

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Are men cowards now or does this “choice” mentality pollute men into being lazy?

IMO if God asks women to “submit” thereby putting men as the leaders of the family unit, the sin is heavier on their shoulders for this cultural abomination.
Our culture portrays men as lazy and cowards and sadly many men believe the lies the media tells us and follow suit. I don’t blame them for it though, rather I hope they see the truth in time and fight back against women who refuse to “submit” as you say.

I don’t like using that word because I’ll get a lot of flack from feminists, but I think it’s true that women need guidance and love from men and men need comfort, love, and strength from women, The two sexes work together, not against each other. They compliment each other. When they rival, a whole mess load of harm splatters out. Discord, hate, resentment, selfishness, all the things that are the opposite of what God intended.

Anyway, rather than blame the men, I blame both sexes. They need to come together mutually.
 
Because US is the largest country for Christians, so I think their duty to educate and warn others, Christians should be role model for all other religions to admire.
I believe Brazil would be the largest in number, for one country,
 
Thank you! I did not mean to imply that but I can see how it could be read that way. My beef with the “survival of the fittest” type mentality (which isn’t just strictly an understanding of evolutionary biology, but has been appropriated by the eugenics movement and other “social Darwinists”) is more in the dehumanizing utilitarian view of the world, which is an atheistic view but far from the only one, as you point out. Mea culpa.

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You brought up a good point about dehumanzing utilitarian views. I have been trying to point out that the false dichotomy of legitimate and illegitimate is dehumanizing. I mean, if someone truly believes in that nonsense, that why wouldnt they want to abort?

To me, writing off children in this way is verging on utilitarianism.
 
Thankyou Sam. To answer the question of why women are always called out on this, is because the Lord knows that we are strong enough to tolerate the dirty looks we get when we take our “illegitimate” children to church with us. Aren’t you glad that 40% of babies are BORN, rather than ABORTED, to unmarried women? I wonder how many unmarried women have abortions? SAM you sound like a typical middle eastern Muslim. Are they still doing “virgin tests” on the women in Saudi Arabia?
Good post. You know, if one has the capability to recognise why women get called out more often, one has the capability to choose not to behave in a nasty manner. Unfortunately, many choose, subconsciously or otherwise, to not act the most Christian way.

We can all choose to treat people with respect, or complain about others and the existence of pesky children threatening society. Because we really don’t all have other things to worry about.
 
Yes, we must teach people that they ought to treat others with respect. I agree. We must also teach them that respect for others means not using others for sexual purposes.
The second sentence, while true, is a separate issue.
I realize that this type of discussion can be very sensitive, just because we live in an age when the matters we are discussing have in fact affected a lot of people—probably most people. It’s not like a discussion of nuclear war, something in which we have not participated. But we have engaged in sexual sins; there are children born out of wedlock; there are a million abortions a year; the sale of contraceptives is a huge business. A lot of us have been personally affected.
You are right, but I have to say I dont like being compared to a consequence of sexual sin. I know you dont mean it that way, but what I am trying to point out is that even if one does not care about the feelings of millions of human beings, if one wants to halt the widespread use of abortion, they might want to think of a less counter productive way.
So a priest giving a perfectly reasonable homily about such matters can expect that many people in the congregation will take it personally or be offended, because they have been affected by such things personally. Perhaps that is why, as Easter Joy mentioned, such homilies are quite rare.
Well, one can give a homily without using the term ‘illegitimate’ and talking about the many other benefits of marriage etc.
You say that “linking children being borne out of wedlock to a social ill just does not sit right with me. It makes me feel very uncomfortable and I can never accept it.” But without making any judgment on the individuals who may be such children or their parents, the fact is that it is a social ill, with adverse effects on the well being of society. Again, without looking at individuals, statistically such children and such families, overall, have worse outcomes in a variety of categories. There have been a number of books written about this. And the greater the rate of out of wedlock births, the greater the social ills in the population.
I assume you have not had to deal with some of the rubbish people come up with as an excuse to warn against fornication. I dont think it is worth it even if to stop any of the ‘social ills’ you might think are propagated by the births of these children.
The story of Adam and Eve is the first account in the bible after creation itself, and it concerns marriage. When marriage is undermined, individuals and society suffer.

The world was not one big utopia prior to the 1960’s. But the sexual revolution DID have a huge effect on the direction of society, and it was not good. The results are documented and convincing. Mary Eberstadt’s recent book “Adam and Eve After the Pill,” summarizes them quite well. If Paul VI could have lived to see the actual results of the disregard of his encyclical “Humanae Vitae,” he might have stated his case more forcefully. Even so, everything he warned about has in fact occurred.
 
I’d take my family, which is clearly not up to snuff for some of you over a family with workaholic parents, abusive parents, alcoholic parents, etc. Sorry, but a lot of people with married parents had it a lot worse than me.

Also, the FRC is a despicable organization and I consider it a badge of honor that they have an issue with my upbringing.

No, I should not have been given up for adoption.
Anecdotes are just that. The data are simply overwhelming, however, that these best scenario for raising a child is within a marriage that pre-dates the conception.
 
So…are the father’s unmarried, too?
Or is it just the mothers?
With the mother, you can ask.

Not so much with the father.

This question of holding men as responsible as women, reminds me of a quote.
I’ve seen a lot of generations come and go, and all the guys have been the same: saying sweet things to get the girls to do stuff with them. But this generation of women is different. They’re stupid enough to let the guys have it.
page 7, Pure Womanhood, C Evert.
 
With the mother, you can ask.

Not so much with the father.

This question of holding men as responsible as women, reminds me of a quote.
Quote:
I’ve seen a lot of generations come and go, and all the guys have been the same: saying sweet things to get the girls to do stuff with them. But this generation of women is different. They’re stupid enough to let the guys have it.

Oh yea – that “quote”. It came from an old man – and from the looks of it – not quite Christian – making women scapegoats for men’s behavior.
 
Oh yea – that “quote”. It came from an old man – and from the looks of it – not quite Christian – making women scapegoats for men’s behavior.
Calling it like he sees it.

Sorry, but men have been trying to get into women’s pants forever. It is just recently that women allow it at the numbers they do.

He isn’t making women scapegoats for the man’s behavior, unless you can tell me that 40% of babies born are born to rape victims. These women said sure, why not. It is their behavior that helped to cause the problem.
 
Calling it like he sees it.

Sorry, but men have been trying to get into women’s pants forever. It is just recently that women allow it at the numbers they do.

He isn’t making women scapegoats for the man’s behavior, unless you can tell me that 40% of babies born are born to rape victims. These women said sure, why not. It is their behavior that helped to cause the problem.

Calling it like “he sees it” – does not make it true. It is un-Christian – to hold one side responsible.
 
. . . . Well, one can give a homily without using the term ‘illegitimate’ and talking about the many other benefits of marriage etc.
Exactly so, and I quite agree with you. I’ve never used the term myself at all, and don’t see any need to use it. Nor, for that matter, have I ever heard a priest use the term when he was talking about sex or marriage. The only time I’ve ever come across it recently has been in these forums. Go figure!

After all, the problem of out of wedlock births is not attributable to babies! They didn’t do anything wrong! They are a blessing. I’ll go even a little further. If it weren’t for births to unwed mothers the nation might find itself in a deadly depopulation spiral because otherwise our fertility rate would be below replacement level.

But still, it’s sociologically a problem, and an indicator of a devolving society. And it isn’t as though the nation is attempting to fix the problem. Quite the contrary. It seems that beginning with the contraceptive revolution and the sexual revolution, public policy has pretty much been pushing precisely toward the breakdown of family, as if it were a public good, which it isn’t.
 
Our culture portrays men as lazy and cowards and sadly many men believe the lies the media tells us and follow suit. I don’t blame them for it though, rather I hope they see the truth in time and fight back against women who refuse to “submit” as you say.

I don’t like using that word because I’ll get a lot of flack from feminists, but I think it’s true that women need guidance and love from men and men need comfort, love, and strength from women, The two sexes work together, not against each other. They compliment each other. When they rival, a whole mess load of harm splatters out. Discord, hate, resentment, selfishness, all the things that are the opposite of what God intended.

Anyway, rather than blame the men, I blame both sexes. They need to come together mutually.
What culture is that? Aren’t men who live down to what you say they are portrayed as, either real dumb or trying to find an excuse? Thankfully, not all men are like that and many, many men would be rather insulted with being told they are so gullible, lacking intelligence in believing everything the media, others say,

Women need guidance? Have they all lost their God given intelligence like poor men seem to have?
 
With the mother, you can ask.

Not so much with the father.

This question of holding men as responsible as women, reminds me of a quote.

page 7, Pure Womanhood, C Evert.
What does that say of men ?
 
Calling it like he sees it.

Sorry, but men have been trying to get into women’s pants forever. It is just recently that women allow it at the numbers they do.

He isn’t making women scapegoats for the man’s behavior, unless you can tell me that 40% of babies born are born to rape victims. These women said sure, why not. It is their behavior that helped to cause the problem.
So its okay for men to do that? I know of many men who do not try to do that. That quote seems to say men are lechers and women should know better and its their responsibility and their sin only for giving in. So very wrong.
 
I think it best, EasterJoy, that we put each other on ignore.

For I am clearly offending you for some bizarre reason.
And you are making me respond to your posts with:

whatshouldwecallme.tumblr.com/post/29811419866/when-i-heard-rihanna-tell-oprah-that-she-was-more
LOL? Wow, what a snappy comeback! You are a regular Mark Twain, aren’t you?

Seriously, I would really rather you had responded to my criticism of your analogy with a reasoned rebuttal. That is what we generally do here. Unfortunately, you see, your choice to be flippant instead of posting something intelligent as a reply gives the impression that you have no rebuttal. That does not enhance your reputation as a “thinking” person.

If you are not a great deal more careful about flattering your own thinking ability over that of others and then falling back into ad hominem responses when you can’t think of any reasoned response to the inevitabe reasoned reply, you’re going to find it will not be difficult at all to convince others to ignore your posts.

I know you’ve made a convert out of me! :rolleyes:
 
So its okay for men to do that? I know of many men who do not try to do that. That quote seems to say men are lechers and women should know better and its their responsibility and their sin only for giving in. So very wrong.
You seem to be jumping on things I didn’t say.

I never said it is okay for men to do that.

I simply said, if women don’t want to have children out of wedlock, there is a very simple solution. Just say no. It works with drugs and it works with sex.
 
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