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Walking_Home
Guest
Well one can see – how some try to “rationalize” —and shirk away responsibility. But it does not change – that men are equally responsible – and need to keep it zipped in the pants.
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Well one can see – how some try to “rationalize” —and shirk away responsibility. But it does not change – that men are equally responsible – and need to keep it zipped in the pants.
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Walking_Home
Guest
TimeEntrance:
It is the male’s choice to be decent and responsible and not so casually with a “couldn’t care less” attitude, impregnate the female. Just because the woman suffers the greater consequence does not mean she is more/most responsible.** Thank goodness for many decent men.**
Yes.
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Lightsway
Guest
Maybe I am still bitter about Obama’s win but this mentality of “deserves” bothers me to no end. This is a rant, I admit that.
Seriously why do you believe they deserve anything? Living does not mean you deserve to be served and cared for by people who actually produce something in this world through hard work and not by the act of lying on one’s back. She got pregnant, There is no mystery how one gets pregnant.
Code:
Yes people make mistakes but what happened to the idea that actions have consequences. You should be held ultimately responsible for those actions. I should not have to pay for an abortion nor should have to pay feed a child and a mother.
These idea of helping is not working. We have tried for at least thirty years. Mothers now a days are not having not one child out wedlock they are having multiple children out of wed lock with different fathers. The idea of supporting them and helping them is not working, Wake up, Maybe shame and the fact you are already watching one child starve is enough to help these women learn not to have sex until they can afford the fruits of it.
I feel better
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robotsarecool
Guest
You make it sound like it is all the woman’s fault and responsibility. It takes two to tango. It takes a man to get a woman pregnant. He should man up and help out. Now I understand your frustration, but it isn’t just these women’s faults, it is the men who sleep with them’s faults as well. When they don’t man up and take responsibility for their kid, then usually the woman has a hard time taking care of the kids that result from both of their actions.Maybe I am still bitter about Obama’s win but this mentality of “deserves” bothers me to no end. This is a rant, I admit that.
Seriously why do you believe they deserve anything? Living does not mean you deserve to be served and cared for by people who actually produce something in this world through hard work and not by the act of lying on one’s back. She got pregnant, There is no mystery how one gets pregnant.
Gwaaaaaaaa.Code:Yes people make mistakes but what happened to the idea that actions have consequences. You should be held ultimately responsible for those actions. I should not have to pay for an abortion nor should have to pay feed a child and a mother. These idea of helping is not working. We have tried for at least thirty years. Mothers now a days are not having not one child out wedlock they are having multiple children out of wed lock with different fathers. The idea of supporting them and helping them is not working, Wake up, Maybe shame and the fact you are already watching one child starve is enough to help these women learn not to have sex until they can afford the fruits of it.
I feel better
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Walking_Home
Guest
Lightsway:
You make it sound like it is all the woman’s fault and responsibility. It takes two to tango. It takes a man to get a woman pregnant. He should man up and help out. Now I understand your frustration, but it isn’t just these women’s faults, it is the men who sleep with them’s faults as well. When they don’t man up and take responsibility for their kid, then usually the woman has a hard time taking care of the kids that result from both of their actions.
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severus68
Guest
Those women you want shamed do not get pregnant all by themselves.Maybe I am still bitter about Obama’s win but this mentality of “deserves” bothers me to no end. This is a rant, I admit that.
Seriously why do you believe they deserve anything? Living does not mean you deserve to be served and cared for by people who actually produce something in this world through hard work and not by the act of lying on one’s back. She got pregnant, There is no mystery how one gets pregnant.
Gwaaaaaaaa.Code:Yes people make mistakes but what happened to the idea that actions have consequences. You should be held ultimately responsible for those actions. I should not have to pay for an abortion nor should have to pay feed a child and a mother. These idea of helping is not working. We have tried for at least thirty years. Mothers now a days are not having not one child out wedlock they are having multiple children out of wed lock with different fathers. The idea of supporting them and helping them is not working, Wake up, Maybe shame and the fact you are already watching one child starve is enough to help these women learn not to have sex until they can afford the fruits of it.
I feel better
What is this thirty years? Maybe we should brand “UM” as in unwed mother, into their foreheads and force and parade them around the town.
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Luna_Lovecraft
Guest
When we make females the sole gatekeeps of sexuality morality, we’re denying males the chance to be responsible. It’s imperative that both males and females be held accountable for their sexual behavior. If they’re not, if females alone are responsible for the outcomes of sexual behavior, we not only infantilize men, we end up tacitly approving of sexual behavior we find abhorrent. Is that the kind of society we want to live in?
Luna
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severus68
Guest
Yes, I agree.
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Rence
Guest
You can’t have it both ways: You either want to reduce abortions (which CANNOT happen if a woman feels it’s her only option), or you to make examples of those who get pregnant outside of marriage. It’s as simple as that. People aren’t going to just become chaste because a small handful of people want them to. People have been enjoying sex without consequences and will fight tooth and nail at the very thought of that being taken away from them, so get used to it. It’s not going away anytime soon.Maybe I am still bitter about Obama’s win but this mentality of “deserves” bothers me to no end. This is a rant, I admit that.
Seriously why do you believe they deserve anything? Living does not mean you deserve to be served and cared for by people who actually produce something in this world through hard work and not by the act of lying on one’s back. She got pregnant, There is no mystery how one gets pregnant.
Gwaaaaaaaa.Code:Yes people make mistakes but what happened to the idea that actions have consequences. You should be held ultimately responsible for those actions. I should not have to pay for an abortion nor should have to pay feed a child and a mother. These idea of helping is not working. We have tried for at least thirty years. Mothers now a days are not having not one child out wedlock they are having multiple children out of wed lock with different fathers. The idea of supporting them and helping them is not working, Wake up, Maybe shame and the fact you are already watching one child starve is enough to help these women learn not to have sex until they can afford the fruits of it.
I feel better
In addition, I didn’t look at that study so does anyone know: did it take into account divorced, widowed and single women? Or did the study just give a number on babies born to ‘unmarried women’?
Also consider many single women are opting to have children without being married. I considered it myself at one time. Women don’t need a man in their lives to succeed anymore. If they want to be single forever, they can do that now.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
I think that people are drawing the wrong conclusion from this statistic. Very clearly 40% of all new moms are not living in poverty, or even in danger of it. This 40% includes women who choose to have a child and raise in on their own via artificial insemination and women who are living with a partner but not married.
Not all single moms are poor these days, and the image that a lot of you have of them couldn’t be further off. Yes, there are some that are poor and having children out of wedlock with casual partners. But there are also women like the law professor that I’m working under who has 3 children, two have the same father, one doesn’t, and she’s never been married (and she’s single right now). She’s smart, successful, does well financially, loves her kids and being a mom, but yes, is sometimes spread a little thin, but who isn’t? Then there are a lot of women in long term relationships with the father of their child but they just aren’t married. In our society marriage is becoming less important, less valued, and less common.
I would be very curious as to what percent of this 40% actually lives in poverty.
Not all single moms are poor these days, and the image that a lot of you have of them couldn’t be further off. Yes, there are some that are poor and having children out of wedlock with casual partners. But there are also women like the law professor that I’m working under who has 3 children, two have the same father, one doesn’t, and she’s never been married (and she’s single right now). She’s smart, successful, does well financially, loves her kids and being a mom, but yes, is sometimes spread a little thin, but who isn’t? Then there are a lot of women in long term relationships with the father of their child but they just aren’t married. In our society marriage is becoming less important, less valued, and less common.
I would be very curious as to what percent of this 40% actually lives in poverty.
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4Squarebaby
Guest
It is the live birth to “single” mothers rate. It does not take into account common law relationships where there is no common law marriage. I am not sure about the seperated women who have a child with a man other then their husband. The rate is pretty much the same in any country where the father/brother does not kill the single mother out of their sense of honor. In the Philippines for example the rate is 38% as of 2008.
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EasterJoy
Guest
The birth rate among unmarried women concerns me far less than the abortion rate among married women.
According to the Guttmacher Institute, married women account for 18.4% of all abortions. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion. Six in ten women having abortions already have another child. An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old.
About 75% of women obtaining abortions describe themselves as religiously affiliated; the rate of abortion among women who self-identify as Catholics is essentially the same as the general population. According to the CDC, in the United States the abortion ratio was 234 abortions per 1,000 live births in 2008. Yes…it has essentially gotten to the point that for every four children you see, another child was not allowed to live. Think about that before you decide how you’re going to talk about the women and the couples who choose life.
I think the last thing we need to do is to be overly critical of unmarried women who become pregnant and then give birth instead of aborting their child. A woman who chooses to be responsible and to raise her child ought to be supported. Why? Because some other woman who is pregnant and wondering what to do is watching how other women who do the right thing are being treated. If we are going to encourage the general population to choose life, we can’t afford to speak out of both sides of our mouths about it. Yes, we have to speak out in favor of sexual purity, too, but as a good to be embraced for its own sake, and not as something to be embraced out of a fear of being ostracized for failure. We ought not ever feed the fear that choosing life and choosing to carry a stigma are the same thing.
That’s what I think.
According to the Guttmacher Institute, married women account for 18.4% of all abortions. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion. Six in ten women having abortions already have another child. An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old.
About 75% of women obtaining abortions describe themselves as religiously affiliated; the rate of abortion among women who self-identify as Catholics is essentially the same as the general population. According to the CDC, in the United States the abortion ratio was 234 abortions per 1,000 live births in 2008. Yes…it has essentially gotten to the point that for every four children you see, another child was not allowed to live. Think about that before you decide how you’re going to talk about the women and the couples who choose life.
I think the last thing we need to do is to be overly critical of unmarried women who become pregnant and then give birth instead of aborting their child. A woman who chooses to be responsible and to raise her child ought to be supported. Why? Because some other woman who is pregnant and wondering what to do is watching how other women who do the right thing are being treated. If we are going to encourage the general population to choose life, we can’t afford to speak out of both sides of our mouths about it. Yes, we have to speak out in favor of sexual purity, too, but as a good to be embraced for its own sake, and not as something to be embraced out of a fear of being ostracized for failure. We ought not ever feed the fear that choosing life and choosing to carry a stigma are the same thing.
That’s what I think.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
Women in poverty and who have a lower level of education have a much higher rate of both unintended pregnancy and abortion. Women who make more money and have more education have a far higher rate of contraceptive use. Make of that what you will, but I repeat my point: the woman who has the child has done the right thing in the most important respect very publicly, while the woman who aborts can do so privately, so that her sexual life is not known to anyone, and so is not open to judgment by anyone.
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Lightsway
Guest
I did not mean to single out just woman. What I am trying to emphasize is the idea of consequences for irresponsible actions. The line the got my goat was the following:
"I think what is more important than damning these women, is giving them the support they need and deserve. "
She chose to have sex with that man, she was not raped, she got pregnant, man runs off, which often is not surprise. Both however are indeed wrong. Does she now have a need for help? YES. Does she deserve help? NO Should she get help? NO, because that way she will not learn from that mistake and you encourage other people to do the same. The idea being “If I get pregnant other people will pay my bills and I don’t have to work as hard”. It was her choice and now she has a baby to feed by herself, if she cant get restitution from the father and can’t afford it she should give it up for adoption. In no way should I have to subsidize the fruits of her sex life, I should not have to pay for daycare, formula, food, or housing, The only one that should pay is her and the father.
I hope this is more clear. If not I will try again.
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BlueEyedLady
Guest
I have to agree with EasterJoy. That attitude encourages abortion, not abstinence.
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Lightsway
Guest
Code:
That rant was mostly about people deserving support for an irresponsible action.(The thirty years was talking about the shift acceptance of supporting single mothers actions and also the welfare state that encourages this behavior. So my thirty years started in the 1970… Ok forty years. Getting old, losing decades
)If you can afford to have a child I have no problem with it, but you never deserve my support.
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silicasandra
Guest
I can understand your frustration about this if you are talking about being forced to pay for these things through taxation.
But at the same time, we are called to respond with charity to those in need. Baby has done nothing wrong simply by existing. Moms, even though she may have made one bad decision or many, who make the right choice to give birth instead of being complicit in murder, should receive our help. They and their babies need our help and we do not sacrifice our human dignity due to sin. Telling a woman to just suck it up leads to more abortions.
Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
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Walking_Home
Guest
That rant was mostly about people deserving support for an irresponsible action.
Do I think there should be some shame? Yes, but I am old fashioned, by that I mean she should not be throwing a baby shower and getting all happy over it. Do I think we have to go to extremes where we brand her and the father as well. NO A little balance in life goes a long way in life.
(The thirty years was talking about the shift acceptance of supporting single mothers actions and also the welfare state that encourages this behavior. So my thirty years started in the 1970… Ok forty years. Getting old, losing decades
If you can afford to have a child I have no problem with it, but you never deserve my support.
Being “Old fashioned” does not make it right. There was a time when unwed mothers were not only shamed – but the child was called derogatory names. Parents would not allow their children to play – with the child of a “fallen” woman.
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Lightsway
Guest
So I should be forced to pay for this child and the mother? What if any consequences should her actions take?
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hurting
Guest
There is a serious logical fallacy being demonstrated by some here (the argument that abortions would go up if pregnancies outside of marriage were subject to more discouraging forces, such as lack of societal support). Once does not necessaily follow the other. Indeed abortion is still a widely chosen avenue to deal with an unwanted pregnancy despite the fact that there is little to no social opposition remaining (“shame”) and there are a host of perverse economic incentives to bear children out of wedlock, at least in the U.S.
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