43,000 denomination source

[crai7]

Does anyone have a source to the claim of 43,000 denominations? I remember viewing a protestant source that stated something near that but can’t seem to find it. Any help would be appreciated. I’ve also heard the numbers range from 30,000 to 40,000.

Only if you count standalone independents as ‘denominations’.

 

[crai7]

However, there are differences. In a discussion about denominational differences, you mentioned that some churches use music and others do not. If this is a denominational distinction, then among the Catholic Churches there are differences which are just as serious, if not more so, than playing or not playing music in church.
Some Catholic churches say the filioque in their creed, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches use leavened bread, others use unleavened bread.
Some Catholic Churches crown the married couple, others will not have the crowning ceremony.
Some Catholic Churches confer confirmation at the time of baptism, others wait later at about 12 or 13 years old.
Some Catholic Churches have only icons and not statues, others allow statues.
Some Catholic Churches do not use the guitar in their services.
Some Catholic Churches receive Communion with a spoon, receiving both the Bread and Wine at the same moment.
Some Catholic Churches will allow married men as priests, others not.
Some Catholics believe in limbo, others do not.
Some Catholics believe that the fires of purgatory are equal to the fires of hell, others do not.
Fasting regulations differ between Catholic Churches of different traditions.
Some Catholic Churches have an altar rail, others do not.
Some Catholic Churches allow Communion in the Hand, others do not.

Most people are going to say that these do not constitute denominational differences. Similarly, the differences that you have mentioned, such as whether or not to play music during church services, are not enough to define a “denomination.”
Since you have not adequately defined what you mean by a denomination and shown that this definition is acceptable to the parties concerned, any attempt to justify the number of denominations at 43000 is unconvincing.

You can also add *allowing married priests * to the list, since some Eastern Rites allow this.

 

[crai7]

Can anyone point me to where I can find a table or list of theological differences of the various Protestant groups? I am rather confused as to what is believed by which denomination. What would be a good list of differences in theological beliefs? I am trying to assess how many permutations of theological differences can really result in that many denominations.

Simple maths however do point to possibly millions if there are let say 10 theological differences and theoretical combinations can result in huge numbers. A matrix of some sort would be really useful I’d think. A kind of handy chart or table.

Yes but not just a combinatorial at the organisational level - you could also consider it at the individual congregant level. Of course this assumes that only a single difference is enough to cause a split, and that they are measurable in a binary yes/no way. In reality different combinations of beliefs are tolerated and they are not always as clear as a binary variable.

Alternatively you could approach it as a cluster analysis problem, and if you know anything about statistics you’ll know that the number and size of clusters you end up with depends not only the variables included, but how you measure the degree of difference, the algorithm, amalgamation rules and so forth… basically how many clusters/groups you end up with depends on the decisions the analyst makes.

 

[PRmerger]

Only if you count standalone independents as ‘denominations’.

Yes, I do.

Why wouldn’t we? We’re trying to figure out how many Christian belief systems there are.

 

[KathleenGee]

Crai…

The Catholic Church doesn’t go around trying to fool people.

You are mixing up Tradition with the small ‘t’ traditions, that reflect local, native cultures.

The big ‘T’ tradition is found in the books we use for Sacred Scripture, the liturgy, the episcopal model of hierarchy, and the Creed…all go back to around 100 AD.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hi Ben Hur,

Had a chance to go on last night…Yes…saw the New Advent piece on the Council of Constance…and went to EWTN’s which I could follow better…there was a time in the Council gatherings…that 'ran counter to the immemorial praxis of the Church and substituted for the Divine Constitution the will of the multitude…“theological parliamentarianism”…

Also read about P Francis’ apology for the burning at the stake of both Hus and Wycliffe and ETWN also laid out better for me the 45 points of Wycliffe…am I correct in understanding that he politicized the Bible by adding or changing wording?..and a proponent of predestination…God creating good people for heaven and creating bad people for hell irregardless.

We believe we are made in the image of God by our intellect and free will…we are all destined for heaven, but we in our free will can deny our inheritance.

I could not find the piece I drew from originally…yet…

 

[Memaw]

Hi Ben Hur…I am going through the aging process now…for real…eyes going out, skin and hair changing, needing to work harder at getting up out of a chair…not sleeping good, not reading well and making mistakes.

Well…I thought I was reading about ‘who done it’ in regards to the burning at the stake of Jan Hus…remembering the Mormon show on ‘The bible’…and how it began with caricatures of Catholic priests witnessing the martyrdom of Jan Hus…and some scenarios of daily life at Mass…with the priest preaching with his hat on…they don’t know our customs…and people gathering around someone standing near the door showing people points of the bible…while parishioners listening avidly to him ignoring the priest. It was most insulting. Came out a year or so ago…

Anyway, it came up again…so I will have to re do my searches…but I thought it was regarding the Council of Constance that was abrogated with an anti pope even protesting in, and that it represented only certain British bishops and some others…

i don’t know if the Catholic Church even sanctioned burning at the stake that much…I know it was used in Salem way back in colonial times but how much, etc., not sure…

Anyway…will look up some more…

It is not sounding at all like the Council I was reading about…

Thanks…

If it wasn’t so TRAGIC, I would find it amusing how so many non-Catholics, (and even some Catholics) THINK they know more about the Catholic Church than the Catholic Church does herself. I wonder if they know what the 8th Commandment is?? Jesus Christ founded ONE Church and HE promised that the Holy Spirit would be with HIS Church till the END of Time. And HIS Church would never teach error. The Catholic Church has been here for over 2,000 years, longer than all others put together!! And will be here long after all others have faded. They are struggling to survive in this secular, Godless world, and becoming more secular all the time. I think we would all be wise to read Acts 5-- 34-39, especially verse 39, "but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them, You might even be found opposing GOD. God Bless, Memaw

 

[KathleenGee]

Thanks, Memaw…

We don’t look to the popes, bishops and priests as ends to themselves…although it has been very easy at times to put them on pedestals which they themselves don’t want…and such leads to entrustment issues and from there…who knows…can also be a source of pride and subsequent temptation by the devil that can lead to clergy abuse.

Instead as Catholics we are to know our faith, our beliefs and practices, what the Mass is and does…all centered on Jesus Christ, He alone the Author of our salvation.

I am proposing in my parish that every household not only have their bible but also a Catholic catechism.

When in doubt with an ecclesiastic – pope, bishop or pastor – consult your catechism prayerfully and follow your conscience.