4th cup ?

[jmcclane]

Hello, I have been listening to Scott Hahn’s 4th cup talk about the Eucharist where he basically states that the Passover meal consisted of four parts, or four cups. The issue is that the 4th cup of the last supper was really taken, by Christ, while he was on the cross which was then followed by “it is finished”. This intimately links the Passover meal to its fulfillment in the Eucharist which is the tree of life which we are to eat the fruit from so to have eternal life. Getting to my question, I had attended a teaching session with my priest where he brought up the sadder meal. He mentioned that there were 3 cups and not 4, my question is which is it, are there 3 or 4 cups in the Passover meal?

Thank you and may God bless you

Joe M

NH

 

[Aaron_I]

There are definitely 4 cups in the Seder meal. Last year my high school chaplain hosted a Seder meal on Holy Thursday. It was really awesome as we were able to experience an important root of the Christian faith (particularly the mass).

If you want more info on the Seder meal, look online. I’m sure there are plenty of good sites for it.

 

[volzcpa]

Here is a site that give a Jewish perspective of the Seder meal and it shows that four cups are used.

 

[mercygate]

Yeah. There are 4 cups. But in the Scripture, Jesus and the disciples LEAVE the supper BEFORE the 4th cup. The point Hahn makes is that Jesus says he will not taste of the fruit of the vine until he comes into the Father’s kingdom. On the cross, he tastes the sponge soaked in vinegar (made from grapes) and declares: It is finished. The 4th cup. The Passover is “finished.”

 

[Sherlock]

mercygate:

Yeah. There are 4 cups. But in the Scripture, Jesus and the disciples LEAVE the supper BEFORE the 4th cup. The point Hahn makes is that Jesus says he will not taste of the fruit of the vine until he comes into the Father’s kingdom. On the cross, he tastes the sponge soaked in vinegar (made from grapes) and declares: It is finished. The 4th cup. The Passover is “finished.”

This is what I have heard from Jeff Cavins as well, no mean Bible scholar.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

My copy of the Jewish Haggadah [Rabbi Silverman], the script for the Seder meal, specifies four cups. The four cups may represent the four letters of God’s Name, or the four divisions of the Seder Service, or the four expressions for redemption from Egypt *

My copy is for a Reform Service, but I think the difference is in the emphasis, and some added prayers. It also notes the four as political, economic, intellectual and spiritual freedom - freedom from want, freedom from oppression and tyranny, freedom in mind and spirit, and freedom to develop god’s gifts to us. The basic structure is the same as for the Orthodox.*

 

[volzcpa]

mercygate:

Yeah. There are 4 cups. But in the Scripture, Jesus and the disciples LEAVE the supper BEFORE the 4th cup. The point Hahn makes is that Jesus says he will not taste of the fruit of the vine until he comes into the Father’s kingdom. On the cross, he tastes the sponge soaked in vinegar (made from grapes) and declares: It is finished. The 4th cup. The Passover is “finished.”

And isn’t it interesting that the fourth cup in the Sader meal represents the celebration of redemption. I think Hahn’s interpretation is very insightful (I also heard him give it on one of his audio recordings).

 

[gryskull]

jmcclane:

Hello, I have been listening to Scott Hahn’s 4th cup talk about the Eucharist where he basically states that the Passover meal consisted of four parts, or four cups. The issue is that the 4th cup of the last supper was really taken, by Christ, while he was on the cross which was then followed by “it is finished”. This intimately links the Passover meal to its fulfillment in the Eucharist which is the tree of life which we are to eat the fruit from so to have eternal life. Getting to my question, I had attended a teaching session with my priest where he brought up the sadder meal. He mentioned that there were 3 cups and not 4, my question is which is it, are there 3 or 4 cups in the Passover meal?

Thank you and may God bless you

Joe M

NH

I tried to find out more about the 4th cup after I’ve listened to Dr. Hahn’s tape. There are 4 cups in all that I’ve researched and couldn’t find 3 cups. I don’t know where your pastor got that info. I would suggest that you ask him about that and get his sources for validation. That’s just a suggestion though.