5 Points of Calvinism

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Crusador said:
You agree that it is untenable to believe that God has with-held grace from those who perish?

I don’t understand that position- do you believe in a type of ineffectual, non-saving grace, that has no purpose or power?
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No, I would say that God gives grace through the preaching of the word and the sacraments. Man rejects the grace that is offered to him in the gospel and perishes.
Can you give me a passage of Scripture that- (and I dont need an explicit statement) - teaches or demonstrates, or even displays a man perishing after having receieved the grace of God?
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If they have received the grace of God they will be justified. The reprobate resist the grace of God that the Spirit offers in the gospel, hence, they never receive it.
 
TriuneUnity said:
No, I would say that God gives grace through the preaching of the word and the sacraments. Man rejects the grace that is offered to him in the gospel and perishes.

If they have received the grace of God they will be justified. The reprobate resist the grace of God that the Spirit offers in the gospel, hence, they never receive it.
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Oh ok. So Grace is free, but we must appropriate it by taking the sacraments? Is this the channel through which grace flows- or is it faith alone?

BTW- are you Catholic, Reformed, or what?
 
Crusador said:
Oh ok. So Grace is free, but we must appropriate it by taking the sacraments? Is this the channel through which grace flows- or is it faith alone?

BTW- are you Catholic, Reformed, or what?
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Well, I know that when I was baptised, I didn’t do much appropriating. We appropriate it as much as we do when hearing the word preached. That is to say, not at all.

Grace doesn’t flow through faith. Faith is given by grace. The word and the sacraments are the means of grace.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
As for those other Protestants that are “really really really good,” I’ll let the readers judge to see how they compare to the Catholic arguments.
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Sorry to interrupt- but I am sitting around twittling my thumbs . . . :yawn:

I have made some serious assertions, and have given some meaningful exegesis- (directly challenging the Catholics on this thread) - and all I have receieved is silence. Either the Catholics agree with me- or they are at a loss of words.

Maybe you could demonstrate these “Catholic arguments” for us, and engage with some of the material I have provided in the following posts:

#165
#205
#212

Thank you for your time-

And I really, honestly do not mean to be rude or offend you in any way. I just think that it would be nice if someone would respond to a really, really, really good Calvinist! 😃
 
TriuneUnity said:
Well, I know that when I was baptised, I didn’t do much appropriating. We appropriate it as much as we do when hearing the word preached. That is to say, not at all.

Grace doesn’t flow through faith. Faith is given by grace. The word and the sacraments are the means of grace.
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I understand that faith is a God given grace, but is it not also the instrument whereby we apprehend justification? Is it not “by Grace through faith?”

And what are you?
 
TriuneUnity said:
Well, I know that when I was baptised, I didn’t do much appropriating. We appropriate it as much as we do when hearing the word preached. That is to say, not at all.

Grace doesn’t flow through faith. Faith is given by grace. The word and the sacraments are the means of grace.
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TriuneUnity is Lutheran. I think they see baptism quite differently than the Reformed Christian. Interesting, my wife just found a copy of Luther’s Small Catechism at a garage sale. I have been reading it. I would say that we are saved by grace alone through the instrument of faith. I believe the sacraments and the Word are a means of sanctifying grace. I don’t believe I have issues with being infused with sanctifying grace through the instrument of faith.
 
Crusador said:
I understand that faith is a God given grace, but is it not also the instrument whereby we apprehend justification? Is it not “by Grace through faith?”

And what are you?
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Yes; faith is the alone instrument by which we receive justification.

Lutheran.
 
Reformed said:
TriuneUnity is Lutheran. I think they see baptism quite differently than the Reformed Christian. Interesting, my wife just found a copy of Luther’s Small Catechism at a garage sale. I have been reading it. I would say that we are saved by grace alone through the instrument of faith. I believe the sacraments and the Word are a means of sanctifying grace. I don’t believe I have issues with being infused with sanctifying grace through the instrument of faith.
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Hey thanks- I appreciate it.

By the way- keep up the good work. I have been reading your posts- have you read any of mine?
 
Reformed said:
I think there are a handful of Reformed Christians, and one grounded and gifted Lutheran Christian on this thread who better represent the same Christian Faith than myself. Please don’t make it about me or them, but focus on the person and work of Jesus Christ for those who believe. You can ignore me, but there are others proclaiming the same truth to you. We are united on the essentials of the Christian Faith! 😉 To God be the glory!
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Be that as it may…according to you…the real problem is that you have a rather ignoble tendency to ignite issues, then step back and “dummy up” when called to account. You refuse to answer questions posed directly to you, and you do little more than “obfuscate” and shadow box with yourself… You made it about you…not I. There is “no-one” proclaiming any truth to me. They are expressing their opinions. I already have a rather steadfast grasp on the “truth”…it is the whole TRUTH and nothing less than the WHOLE TRUTH. You are merely united in your narrow perspective… But I agree… To God be the glory. But not on your terms.
2 Timothy 2:10
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Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
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And your point in posting this “snippet” of scripture was “what”?
 
Crusador said:
Hey thanks- I appreciate it.

By the way- keep up the good work. I have been reading your posts- have you read any of mine?
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Of course… I do appreciate them very much. They represent the Christian Faith very well and with gentleness and respect. I have been trying to get some of the Roman Catholics to discuss things with you and a few other of the Reformed Christians on this site. I really like TriuneUnity, but Lutherans have some distinctives that are quite different than Reformed Theology.
 
RobHom said:
There is “no-one” proclaiming any truth to me. They are expressing their opinions. I already have a rather steadfast grasp on the “truth”…it is the whole TRUTH and nothing less than the WHOLE TRUTH. You are merely united in your narrow perspective
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Not to make an enemy - but shouldn’t you have a little more humility? To say that you already have the WHOLE TRUTH is a direct contradiction of Holy Scripture. And to say that you have NOTHING BUT the whole truth is a little arrogant- is it not?

Not that I mind arrogance- we are all a little prideful (when it comes to the positions we hold) BUT when you claim that you have the WHOLE TRUTH- I would say that this is overboard- wouldn’t you?

Doesn’t the Apostle Paul say, “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then we shall see face to face: as of now, I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” (1 Cor. 13:12)

Do you suppose that you have more knowledge of the Truth than the Apostle Paul? :ehh:
 
Reformed said:
I have been trying to get some of the Roman Catholics to discuss things with you and a few other of the Reformed Christians on this site.
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Reformed…a “one-sided monologue” is not a discussion. If you ask a question, you expect an answer. If a Catholic addresses a question to you, the Catholic expects an answer. If you fail to answer, you are merely trying to push an agenda, not have a discussion. You have no right to expect anything, unless you are willing to participate as honestly as you expect others to participate.

In other words… a monologue on your part is nothing less that a blatant attempt to convert a Catholic, which as I recall…is against forum rules…
 
Reformed said:
Of course… I do appreciate them very much. They represent the Christian Faith very well and with gentleness and respect. I have been trying to get some of the Roman Catholics to discuss things with you and a few other of the Reformed Christians on this site. I really like TriuneUnity, but Lutherans have some distinctives that are quite different than Reformed Theology.
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Indeed they do! But for the most part- TriuneUnity is pretty darn effective- and quite sound in the faith. Are you paedo or credo?
 
Crusador said:
Indeed they do! But for the most part- TriuneUnity is pretty darn effective- and quite sound in the faith. Are you paedo or credo?
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I agree, TriuneUnity is one of my favorite Christians on this site. He is quite gifted from God. Actually, I can go either way with baptism depending on the church that I am attending. I can embrace both the Westminster Confession and the London Baptist Confession of 1689. I don’t have to worry about paedo baptism since my three boys are all teenagers. Personally, my parent’s baptized me as an infant in a Protestant Church. I also was baptized as a believer at my middle twenties. How do you see baptism?
 
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