5 surprising elements of Catholic Social Doctrine

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But the Church adds a point that some pro-Capitalists want to ignore or hide, which is that free labor markets always naturally produce and maintain a wage rate at the bottom that does not allow the lowest paid workers and their families to maintain human dignity, or even to survive in some cases. “Markets” have no conscience or moral standards. Profit is the only criterion. Private charities cannot make up for the failure of markets.

Thus, the Catholic Church has always proposed the Just Family Wage. **It is obvious that organizations lower than the government cannot create or maintain a Just Family Wage. **Subsidiary is not the dominant doctrine in Catholic Social Doctrine. Rather, the Common Good is the dominant doctrine. If it is left to the local Chamber of Commerce or the Salvation Army to create and maintain the Just Family Wage called for by the Catholic Church, then the Just Family Wage will always just be nothing more than a nice sentiment in books on the shelves of theologians and bishops.

With a government-enforced Just Family Wage, all government social programs can be repealed. With a Just Family Wage enforced by the government, along with the Full Employment that the Catholic Church’s Social Doctrine also calls for, all these can be repealed immediately or gradually: public schools; food stamps; Social Security; Medicare; Medicaid; Unemployment Insurance; Pell Grants; Student Loans; Housing Aid; etc. Everyone will have enough money from their work to pay for their necessities. There will still be the same wide and vast differences in personal wealth. Some will still have huge houses, and others will live in little “matchbox” houses. Some will have luxury cars. Other will ride public transit, or walk. Some will get rich retire at age 40, and some “trust fund babies” will never work a day in their lives (e.g., Kim Kardasian, Paris Hilton). But those workers and their families at the bottom (hotel maids, convenience store clerks, lawn mowers) will not have to live without human dignity, always on the verge of homelessness. We don’t have to reinvent the wheel. The social democracies of Northern Europe have been doing all this for 50 years or more, and they have a higher standard of living on average, and a higher GDP on a per capita basis, than the USA has ever had.

So why don’t more people see the Catholic Church’s call for a government-enforced Just Family Wage as the solution to what ails the world?

Why don’t more see that the way to win more people over to rejecting abortion (in law and in practice) is to show them that Almighty God has a plan that is Pro-Life and Pro-Love for every person, both before and after birth?
That is not true. In some European countries labor unions and employers establish a just wage at a national level that merely is enforced by the government.

Here is what Pope Benedict said about subsidiarity:

*58. The principle of subsidiarity must remain closely linked to the principle of solidarity and vice versa, since the former without the latter gives way to social privatism, while the latter without the former gives way to paternalist social assistance that is demeaning to those in need. *

Unless you think solidarity isn’t too important to CST, then you shouldn’t say subsidiarity is, which “must remain closely linked to the principle of solidarity”.
 
Joseph Smith, Jr., the American-born, charismatic, audacious, greedy, lecherous con man founder of the fake Mormon “church,” had a thing he called his Seer Stone. He made everyone believe that with this Seer Stone he could translate both real and imaginary ancient divine documents into English. I think many people (me too?) in America have their own Seer Stone, which enables them to, with apparent divine guidance, see just want they want to see. Maybe this is a part of our historic ethos of “American Exceptionalism.” Maybe we Americans need to stop being so exceptional, need to get rid of Seer Stones, and see genuine Divine Revelation. Joseph Smith, Jr. invented his own religion for his personal financial enrichment, and to have his way sexually with the attractive wives and daughters of his followers. I think this is, in part, an American habit. One of the Latin phrases chosen by the Founding Fathers in 1777 for the Great Seal of the United States is “Novus ordo seclorum,” meaning “A new order of the ages.” It’s on the back of every $1 bill, right under the pagan Egyptian pyramid. It is a quote from the pagan Latin author Virgil. We Americans, I think, tend to think our national history is the standard by which everything is to be judged. I think we sometimes translate the doctrines of the Holy Church into something very different, since we, in 1776, did inaugurate the supposed “Novus ordo seclorum.” The Great Seal of the United States makes no reference to the date, or the person, or the event that inaugurated the REAL new era in human history. I think this is all touched on in the papal encyclical that condemned Americanism.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americanism_(heresy
papalencyclicals.net/Leo13/l13teste.htm
 
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But the Church adds a point that some pro-Capitalists want to ignore or hide, which is that free labor markets always naturally produce and maintain a wage rate at the bottom that does not allow the lowest paid workers and their families to maintain human dignity, or even to survive in some cases. “Markets” have no conscience or moral standards. Profit is the only criterion. Private charities cannot make up for the failure of markets.

Thus, the Catholic Church has always proposed the Just Family Wage. It is obvious that organizations lower than the government cannot create or maintain a Just Family Wage. Subsidiary is not the dominant doctrine in Catholic Social Doctrine. Rather, the Common Good is the dominant doctrine. If it is left to the local Chamber of Commerce or the Salvation Army to create and maintain the Just Family Wage called for by the Catholic Church, then the Just Family Wage will always just be nothing more than a nice sentiment in books on the shelves of theologians and bishops.

With a government-enforced Just Family Wage, all government social programs can be repealed. With a Just Family Wage enforced by the government, along with the Full Employment that the Catholic Church’s Social Doctrine also calls for, all these can be repealed immediately or gradually: public schools; food stamps; Social Security; Medicare; Medicaid; Unemployment Insurance; Pell Grants; Student Loans; Housing Aid; etc. Everyone will have enough money from their work to pay for their necessities. There will still be the same wide and vast differences in personal wealth. Some will still have huge houses, and others will live in little “matchbox” houses. Some will have luxury cars. Other will ride public transit, or walk. Some will get rich retire at age 40, and some “trust fund babies” will never work a day in their lives (e.g., Kim Kardasian, Paris Hilton). But those workers and their families at the bottom (hotel maids, convenience store clerks, lawn mowers) will not have to live without human dignity, always on the verge of homelessness. We don’t have to reinvent the wheel. The social democracies of Northern Europe have been doing all this for 50 years or more, and they have a higher standard of living on average, and a higher GDP on a per capita basis, than the USA has ever had.

So why don’t more people see the Catholic Church’s call for a government-enforced Just Family Wage as the solution to what ails the world?

Why don’t more see that the way to win more people over to rejecting abortion (in law and in practice) is to show them that Almighty God has a plan that is Pro-Life and Pro-Love for every person, both before and after birth?
Are you just looking for excuses to vote democrat in order to look for other reasons that promoting Catholic doctrine?
 
The problem is that the conservatives Catholics have aligned themselves with the republicans that believe that a living wage and health care insurance for the poor is immoral. If a person is paid a penny a day and lives in a card board hut that is providence as far as the republicans are concerned.
What the Church Social teaching means is very clear: do not cheat your workers out of their just pay. If they give you a dollars worth of work, give them a fair percentage of the business income in wages.

Church is ALWAYS reasonable. Catholicism is a religion of faith and reason, so Church teaching should always be interpreted as reasonable. For instance, if your workers generate 100,000 in gross income every year, you CAN’T pay them more than about 40% of that gross! A business will not long survive if it makes no profit, and government will swoop in and take a big chunk of that 100,000 right off the top (40% or so).

If you overpay your workers, it is the same thing as firing them, for soon your business will fold, and they won’t have jobs.

Why must a business make a profit? Three reasons: to invest in the creation of new wealth, to save for economic hard times, and because all true charity comes out of profit.
 
I’m still stunned by the level of ignorance about socialism and it always being regarded as Godless on these Fora
If the speaker is equating Socialism with Godlessness, then most likely they are using the term to refer to what might be better termed “Fascist Theocracy.”

Communist Russian was a Fascist Theocracy, with the State placing itself in the role of God. We use the term Communism, but that isn’t really correct, as Communism is self-organizing from the individual on up, while Fascism is top down. The salient point: Communist Russia spent quite a lot of time, money and human resources keeping its citizens prisoners.

A proper communist society is one where people join of their own free will, are free to leave at any time, can be ejected from the group for failure to abide by the group agreement, and who freely agree to those terms of membership in the first place. In other words, a US Corporation is very similar to a true Communism.

Any attempt to create a Communistic government quickly runs afoul of the coercive and abusive nature of government power. In other words, “Catholic Communes good, Government Communism BAD!”
 
Socialism is wrong. Pure capitalism unrestrained is wrong.

Has the Catholic Church ever taught what is the ideal point between the two?

At what point along the continuum does one get to wrongness?
Maximum freedom is a necessary requirement. That is what Subsidiarity is about. Subidiarity gives us the Freedom to choose God, or not. Freedom to choose how one will live one’s own life, and the direction that that life will take, while still being a member of a community of Godly people.

Free association is the heart and soul of Catholic Social Justice Teaching. Which is why the original poster was dead wrong . . . these teachings have nothing to do with specifying the role or form of government (because all government is by its nature coercive, and thus must be used sparingly and correctly). These teachings have everything to do with the formation of the individual’s conscience.

A Catholic who follows the teaching of the Church is not required to bankrupt his business in order to pay a “living wage.” Said Catholic is required, however, not to cheat his workers out of a just and equitable share of the business income. This teaching is an abstraction, and can be implemented in many ways, with the exception of externally applied force (IE, government, slavery, false systems of class or simple theft).

It is incumbent on government to enforce agreements freely entered into by both parties, and also to limit contracts (agreements) to be moral (for example: one may not sell oneself into slavery, even if both parties freely agree to enter into such a contract).

The external force interpretation of Catholic Social Justice teaching is irrational, and thus CAN NOT BE what the Church intends. Catholicism IS ALWAYS REASONABLE.

This can be demonstrated by falsifying the Democratic Socialist interpretation of the teaching on “Just Wage”.

The DemoSocialist maintains that government must force businesses to pay a “minimum wage that allows a worker to live on said wage” and further specifies what “living wage” means.

But if government forces a business to pay more than the value the worker produces, the company is running at a loss. The only reasonable thing for such a company is then to do either 1) Fire some workers, thus depriving them of ALL of their wage or 2) Go bankrupt, thus depriving ALL of its workers of ALL of their wages. In a regulatory environment that creates artificial classes of employees, a third option exists: re-categorize some workers so as to reduce their wages (which is what business is doing in the face of the irrational requirements of Obamacare . . . cutting worker hours to the point where they are re-categorized in such a way as to allow the business to pay them a fair and just wage).

The Catholic who follows Church Social Teaching correctly will instead offer jobs to those who wish them, jobs that contribute to the human good (IOW, a business will not offer jobs whose essential functions, when fulfilled, are detrimental to the good of the worker or society as a whole), and will offer a fair and just wage to the worker. This wage may not be sufficient for the worker to live on, but is none the less proper, just and fair (because the value of the work supplied by the worker is fairly compensated). If a worker produces in one hour ten hours worth of value, government takes 40% of every dollar earned, and the business can only be viable at a profit of 20 cents on the dollar, then the worker should be paid four dollars for that hour of work. If they business is paying two dollars an hour, then that wage is not just or fair. The other side of the coin is unjust demands by workers. A group of workers who force a business to employ them, and threaten the business with destruction unless they are paid more than they are worth is in violation of Catholic Social Justice teaching.

In other words, just how much is “fair” and “just” is not specified, but it is clear that if the business can still make a reasonable profit while paying a higher wage to its workers, it should raise its wage scales. It is equally clear that if the business may not make a reasonable profit at a higher wage scale, it is not required to raise said wage scale. To do so would destroy the business, thus not only reducing the workers wage to nothing, but also destroying the good of work for those who would then loose their jobs.

To read Social Teaching in any other way is to destroy the good of work for those who could work, but who are either not capable of earning a living wage, or who do not require a living wage (teenagers working their first job do not need to earn a living wage, but they should have access to the good of work), or to damage or destroy the ability of society to generate wealth, or to quite simply partially enslave some (the “Rich”, for example).

These people who cannot earn a living wage are usually someone else’s dependents, and as such, familial care takes care of some of them, while charity takes care of some of those who do not have the blessings of family. Charity, of course, can only exist in the presence of profit. No profit, no charity.

In short, a good Catholic will generate as much wealth as is possible while following God’s teachings and precepts, will pay a fair and just wage to his workers, and will give as much of his profit to charity as is reasonable, and as God move’s his heart.

None of that requires government.
 
When our corporations deny the citizens of their “natural interests and social functions” by outsourcing, they have essentially disregarded the basic fundamentals of Christian Corporatism.
When government makes it impossible to stay in business unless one off-shores jobs (which is what you meant . . . you “outsource” every time you have a service station change a tire that you could have changed yourself), then it is government, not business that is “denying citizens their natural interests and social functions.”

Businesses are mostly reactive. If they off-shore, it is in response to a growing hostility by government or Big Labor towards said business. In other words, it is government who is violating Christian Corporatism.

More to the point: The Catholic Church is the Universal Church. She cares just as much for those off-shore as she does those on-shore. Those off-shore acquire the good of work, and a living wage, and thus the move to off-shore a job is not necessarily morally negative. It may be morally neutral, or morally positive to off-shore.

Your interpretation of this may, in fact, be a violation in its own right of “Christian Corporatism” through the incorrect addition of “Nationalism” to the teaching.
 
The moderates could take control of the entire federation of the United States since they are the majority. It’s time to build the new “Federalist Party”.
“Moderate” is all to often a word that means: One who sees no good or evil, and whose entire moral philosophy consists of “democracy equals morality.”

So for starters: Define Moderate?

Compromise is not by definition a moral good. When one compromises with evil, one is giving aid and support to evil. Jesus did not compromise with the money lenders. He didn’t speak to them softly and lovingly. He was righteously angry, and threw their evil out of God’s temple.

Sometimes it is incumbent on Catholics to be righteously angry. The HHS mandate being the most current case in point.
 
That is not at all what I see this saying. What I see this saying is that the free-marketeers’ idea that employees enter into agreements with employers freely is wrong, and that the fact that an employee is willing to accept an inadequate wage is not justification for the employer to pay only that wage; the employer must pay an adequate wage.
Clearly that is not a correct interpretation:

*They commit grave injustice who refuse to pay a just wage or who do not give it in due time and in proportion to the work done *

This does not require the wage to be “adequate”. It requires it to be fair, just and paid in a timely fashion.

To require “adequacy” would be to force Church teaching to be irrational. What if the worker is generating 1 dollar worth of value a day, but an “adequate” wage is 15$ per hour?

Church teacing is always rational; always reasonable. It is those with a political agenda that keep trying to add to it that which it does not say.

One can argue about just what the exact values of fair, just and timely are, but to fix a wage independent of the work done violates in proportion to the work done.
 
Definetely.
"Culture consists primarily of the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, and the emotions invoked by those stories."

We don’t control the arts, the academy or the press. So the stories that get told, researched in the academy and given a positive spin by the press are many times Anti-Catholic.

Short Answer: Start telling Catholic stories, and do our best to tell them to the seekers and undecideds.

Just like our Lord and Master did when he walked the earth.
 
So why don’t more people see the Catholic Church’s call for a government-enforced Just Family Wage as the solution to what ails the world?
Because that interpretation is irrational, and Church teacing is NEVER irrational.

A business cannot pay more than it can afford to pay. This is so obviously true that it astounds me that people ignore it.

Non-governmental agencies are the ONLY way to properly institute CST, as God does not teach us to enslave others.

If you personally believe that Business X is paying too low a wage, and that the fair and just wage that also allows a business to thrive is higher than what they pay, then you have the simplest, fairest, most rational solution right at your finger tips: Start your OWN BUSINESS and compete with the unjust one! Workers will flock to your business because you are paying a higher wage! And since you don’t have to charge more, customers won’t choose the products of Business X over yours!

Everybody wins, justice and fairness are increased, freedom maintained, and nobody had to be forced under the threat of violence.
 
Quote: “Pope Benedict XVI said that a more just and peaceful world requires ‘adequate mechanisms for the redistribution of wealth’.” See: cathnewsusa.com/2011/12/pope-benedict-xvi’s-peace-message-calls-for-wealth-redistribution/

Dr. Stephen Krason, a tenured professor at Franciscan University of Steubenville (not a Marxism-tolerating institution), wrote this:

“Also, Catholic social teaching does not reject outright the redistribution of wealth. After all, the universal destination of created goods is one of its central principles: all should have a sufficiency of temporal goods so as to live becomingly. The Church also insists that there are some human needs that simply cannot be met, or met adequately, by the market or for-profit entities. The rights of workers are also a long-time concern of the Church.” See skrason.wordpress.com/2012/06/01/the-conservative-weakness-and-the-solution-catholic-social-teaching/
None of these quotes require governmental redistribution by force backed by the threat of violence.

Unless you are suggesting that Church Social Teaching requires Theft?

The proper way to interpret the above is complex, but the word “redistribution” can be satisfied by a regulated free market system. For example: When one works, one gets paid, and that pay is a redistribution of weath.

Those whose education or circumstances do not allow them to provide enough value to justify a living wage should be re-trained, or be the subjects of familial care, or charity.

No governmental force required.
 
"Culture consists primarily of the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves, and the emotions invoked by those stories."

We don’t control the arts, the academy or the press. So the stories that get told, researched in the academy and given a positive spin by the press are many times Anti-Catholic.

Short Answer: Start telling Catholic stories, and do our best to tell them to the seekers and undecideds.

Just like our Lord and Master did when he walked the earth.
:)👍
 
2434 A just wage is the legitimate fruit of work. To refuse or withhold it can be a grave injustice.221 In determining fair pay both the needs and the contributions of each person must be taken into account. “Remuneration for work should guarantee man the opportunity to provide a dignified livelihood for himself and his family on the material, social, cultural, and spiritual level, taking into account the role and the productivity of each, the state of the business, and the common good.”222 Agreement between the parties is not sufficient to justify morally the amount to be received in wages.
2446 St. John Chrysostom vigorously recalls this: “Not to enable the poor to share in our goods is to steal from them and deprive them of life. The goods we possess are not ours, but theirs.”239 “The demands of justice must be satisfied first of all; that which is already due in justice is not to be offered as a gift of charity”:240 (2402)
When we attend to the needs of those in want, we give them what is theirs, not ours. More than performing works of mercy, we are paying a debt of justice
 
Ultimately the Church has condemned social Darwinism and Marxism, .
Not just Marxism. Pope Benedict said:
Both capitalism and Marxism promised to point out the path for the creation of just structures, and they declared that these, once established, would function by themselves,” he said. “And this ideological promise has proven false.”
nytimes.com/2007/05/14/world/americas/14pope.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

If one checks his other writings, it seems he is speaking of unrestricted capitalism, but still, it is clear the Church does have limits on what form of capitalism is morally appropriate too.
 
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