5 women approved to preach

[bkovacs]

This looks like it might be the article

home.catholicweb.com/CathMessDavDio/index.cfm/NewsItem?ID=253562&From=Home

Anyone here have blood pressure pills!.

 

[benedictgal]

Anyone here have blood pressure pills!.

Can the situation be that drastic in this particular diocese that these measures need to be taken? As both japhy and I have indicated, just why would a lay person “preach” at a reconciliation service if the ones who will be administering the sacrament, namely the prirests, will be there? Furthermore, as the document The Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest indicates, the clergy need to make every effort to provide this liturgy to the faithful.

What has this diocese been doing to engender vocations for their people? Tomorrow is Vocation Awareness Week. Does the diocese have anyone in formation for the priesthood or for the diaconate? What about soliciting priests from foreign countries? Several bishops have traveled to India and Africa to invite priests from those countries to come to their dioceses. This is certainly more feasible than having lay women “preach”.

 

[bkovacs]

Can the situation be that drastic in this particular diocese that these measures need to be taken? As both japhy and I have indicated, just why would a lay person “preach” at a reconciliation service if the ones who will be administering the sacrament, namely the prirests, will be there? Furthermore, as the document The Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest indicates, the clergy need to make every effort to provide this liturgy to the faithful.

What has this diocese been doing to engender vocations for their people? Tomorrow is Vocation Awareness Week. Does the diocese have anyone in formation for the priesthood or for the diaconate? What about soliciting priests from foreign countries? Several bishops have traveled to India and Africa to invite priests from those countries to come to their dioceses. This is certainly more feasible than having lay women “preach”.

The liberal clergy’s answer to women priests. They can’t be priests, cause Rome says so. But will let them preach. Next best thing. Sad!!

 

[Beautiful]

The liberal clergy’s answer to women priests. They can’t be priests, cause Rome says so. But will let them preach. Next best thing. Sad!!

You have the right idea idea about it being the liberal clergy’s answer to women priests but it ain’t sad :nope: this infiltration is vicious, relentless and well thought out.

In 2008 Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester appointed the notorious dissenter Sister Joan Sobala as pastoral administrator, i.e., de facto priestess, over the tradition-friendly St. Anne Church. The Women’s Ordination Conference calls her a person “key to the survival and success of the movement for women’s ordination.”
To date - she is ‘the man’ that delivers at the time reserved for the homily.
This methodical turnover has been churning and writhing like an unstoppable snake.

We’re no longer in our own time ladies and gentlemen.

It’s really wrong here.

They are relentless.

And they are very, very hungry.

 

[ASD]

Beautiful;4681027:

All letters should be addressed to Antonio Cardinal Cañizares Llovera

prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments?

There have been many more than five women approved to preach in the Diocese of Rochester, NY. This has been going on for at least twenty years. So far nothing has been done to stop it. I’ve watched it slowly spread. It has been like watching Stephen King’s Langoliers. Each time I hear that this is happening somewhere else I’m taken aback. How much longer and farther will the attack go?
Yes, since he is the new Prefect for the Congregation. In the case of Rochester, was the CDWDS ever notified of this? If one simply went by way of the Apostolic Delegate, such correspondence would only find its way back to the local ordinary. If the bishop is unresponsive, then the complaints need to be forwarded directly to the CDWDS.

So,

1. 
   *]There have been clear violations in Rochester, NY for some years
   *]Complaints have been registered by proper channels
   *]Nevertheless, violations continue
   
   Am I reading this correctly? Is there some nuance I’m missing?
   

   TIA. ASD​

   $ su - Traditionalist && cd /home && chown -R EF:Traditions church
   && git commit -m"Tradtional Latin Mass: Translation and Grammar" gmr

 

[cameron_lansing]

Deacon, I greatly respect you; however, your response leaves me somewhat perplexed. One of the instances where the bishop is allowing these women to “preach” is at a “reconciliation service.” Why would the laity be allowed to “preach” if, at these reconciliation services, the priest would have to be there since they are the administrators of the Sacrament.

Furthermore, in the case of the funeral, the document issued by the Congregation for Clergy, The Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (released on August 15, 1997) specifically notes that: …

Does the diocese in question have such a severe shortage in priests that a priest cannot come and celebrate a Mass of Christian burial for someone, or at least have a deacon come in for burial?

Furthermore, I can understand the issue of Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest; however, should these not be done on a regular basis and should not the faithful make a reasonable effort to assist at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? I can understand if someone is living somewhere in the frozen tundra of the north or in a missionary outpost, but, in my opinion, even though what the bishop is doing may be licit, it is not well-though out.

I believe that my post addressed the distinction between the Mass and Holy Communion outside Mass as it applied to the matter of licit authorization of the lay Christian faithful to preach.

It was written in narrow response to post 41 by PJM, which I placed in a quote box. I do not recall having commented on these other issues which you raise, and did not intend to do so.

I hope this is now clearer.

 

[Beautiful]

So,

1. 
   *]There have been clear violations in Rochester, NY for some years
   *]Complaints have been registered by proper channels
   *]Nevertheless, violations continue
   
   Am I reading this correctly? Is there some nuance I’m missing?

1. 
   This is correct.
   How bad is it in some parishes?
   A parish led by female religious pastoral assistant has assumed the position of ‘homilist’ at even nuptial Masses. If the bride and groom want the priest to give the homily they must personally ask him and hope he delivers.
   RCIA instruction in one of these parishes interjects that lay people and women religious can give homilies with permission from the bishop. This I found most shocking.
   Supposedly the priest gives an intro to these psuedo homilies given by laypeople. I haven’t ever heard more than 2-3 sentences from the priests.
   This is all under the internet radar these days. At one time I was able to link to internet published psuedo homilies. I can’t do that for you anymore but these psuedo homilists continue doing their thing. You would have to ride your horse into town to see and look for yourself. The laypeople homilist do not do it every single week - maybe once or twice a month and at different times each month.

 

[TMC]

What am I missing here? What is being done here is clearly authorized by Can. 766, which was quoted way back in post #24. What is the abuse to be reported? Is Can. 766 the rule or not?

 

[Beautiful]

What am I missing here? What is being done here is clearly authorized by Can. 766, which was quoted way back in post #24. What is the abuse to be reported? Is Can. 766 the rule or not?

What you are missing is that some are using Can.766 in a twisted way as a loophole for a liberal cause. Can. 766 it is being used and abused - in one particular location - for twenty years and this abuse appears to have no geographic boundaries. This is evidenced by the OP.

Can. 767 is intended to be the general rule.

Can. 767 §1. Among the forms of preaching, the homily, which is part of the liturgy itself and is reserved to a priest or deacon, is preeminent; in the homily the mysteries of faith and the norms of Christian life are to be explained from the sacred text during the course of the liturgical year.

 

[Beautiful]

NEW HOPE, Minn. (CNS) – Father Terry Rassmussen, pastor of St. Joseph Church in New Hope, finished the reading, closed the Book of the Gospels and stepped away from the ambo. From the congregation, Ginny Untiedt stepped forward.

Clad in a white robe, Untiedt bowed as Father Rassmussen laid his hands on her head and blessed her. She walked to the ambo and began preaching for the last time.

As many as 29 parishes in the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis have used lay preachers at Mass during the past 25 years. In January Archbishop Harry J. Flynn instructed pastors to discontinue the practice.

He gave the date of his retirement as head of the archdiocese – May 2 – as the time by which parishes should develop “a pastoral plan” to end lay preaching at Mass.

Pope Benedict XVI accepted Archbishop Flynn’s resignation on his 75th birthday May 2; 75 is the age at which canon law requires bishops to turn in their resignation. As coadjutor, Archbishop John C. Nienstedt automatically became head of the archdiocese.

In his January letter to pastors, Archbishop Flynn referenced the 2004 Vatican instruction “Redemptionis Sacramentum,” which called eucharistic lay preaching – a nonordained person reflecting on the Gospel reading at the place in Mass usually reserved for a homily by a priest or deacon – a liturgical abuse.

Only an ordained person should preach after the Gospel at Mass, Archbishop Flynn said.
May 13, 2008

The above article is slighly old but real news.
Yet some bishops persist in running their flock under the wire of liturgical abuse. I’m a parent and I can only imagine how exasperated yet sad Pope Benedict must be when he hears about this sort of disobedience among the shepherds.

 

[TMC]

The above article is slighly old but real news.
Yet some bishops persist in running their flock under the wire of liturgical abuse. I’m a parent and I can only imagine how exasperated yet sad Pope Benedict must be when he hears about this sort of disobedience among the shepherds.

But this is different than what was discussed in the OP. In that diocese lay people, including women, were authorized to preach. They were not authorized to give homilies, that I can tell. Can. 767 reserves the homily to priests and deacons.

I agree that (unless there is something in the Canon I don’t get) lay people cannot give the homily. If that is being done it seems like a violation. Of course, this has nothing to do with gender - lay men are in the same boat as lay women. I have seen (non-deacon) Knights of Columbus get up during the ‘homily’ and plea for funds; that is no different.

 

[Beautiful]

But this is different than what was discussed in the OP. In that diocese lay people, including women, were authorized to preach. They were not authorized to give homilies, that I can tell. Can. 767 reserves the homily to priests and deacons.

I agree that (unless there is something in the Canon I don’t get) lay people cannot give the homily. If that is being done it seems like a violation. Of course, this has nothing to do with gender - lay men are in the same boat as lay women. I have seen (non-deacon) Knights of Columbus get up during the ‘homily’ and plea for funds; that is no different.

I see what you are saying.

Preaching a homily during celebration of the Eucharist is reserved for clergy, but the lay people may preach at reconciliation or funeral services, a celebration of the Word or in other official situations as church representatives — with their pastor’s OK

Diocese approves five women as lay preachers

I wish this situation was the ‘problem’ in my diocese. There is no such luck here. It is much worse. It is more like the discontinued problem in Minneapolis.

 

[LUISV]

I don’t see the problem at all and shame shame on those who do.:tsktsk: :tsktsk:

This Diocese is obviously very progressive and on the cutting edge so to speak. Much the same as my old Diocese of many years ago deep in the heart of Texas. In my parish, as there was no assigned priest, the good sisters took care of everything.

EVERYTHING.

Instruction, planning, baptisms, funerals and yes, the Mass itself.

Not only did they start it, they finished it completely. No need for a Priest at all in that Parish. Nope, the consecration went very well without them and since the Parish was overwhelmingly Latino, the sisters felt that the Host should represent the culture of those present, you know inculturation and all that so corn tortillas were used:thumbsup:

Of course there were some limitations there. Those of us who worked for the federal government, yes, I did for a while, were deemed not worthy to receive due to our association with a repressive government who had abdicated their responsibility for the poor and and was responsible for all of the worlds suffering.

We shared in that collective guilt as I’m sure you are all aware.

On the rare occasion that a Priest would show up, he was usually only all too willing to take a back seat and let the good sisters continue on their enlightened path to equality and such.

I see this program as being the spearhead so to speak of the new wave…:bigyikes:

Funny, verry funny.
There is an obscure monastic practice still in effect that allows some orders of nuns to be consecrated, and this is the key, consecrated, not ordained to preach the word in absence of a priest. Even a stole is granted:

“A feature unique to Carthusian liturgical practice is that whereby the bishop bestows on Carthusian nuns, in the ceremony of their profession, a stole and a maniple. This is by some interpreted as a relic of the former rite of ordination of deaconesses.[3] The nun is also invested with a crown and a ring. The nun wears these ornaments again only on the day of her monastic jubilee, and after her death on her bier. At Matins, if no priest is present, a nun assumes the stole and reads the Gospel, and although the chanting of the Epistle was, in the time of the Tridentine Mass, reserved to an ordained subdeacon, a consecrated nun sang the Epistle at the conventual Mass, though without wearing the maniple. Carthusian nuns retaine this rite, administered by the diocesan bishop four years after the nun took her vows”

Carthusian nuns wouldn’t be interacting with the parishioners so I’m wondering where in Texas this took place?

 

[bkovacs]

But this is different than what was discussed in the OP. In that diocese lay people, including women, were authorized to preach. They were not authorized to give homilies, that I can tell. Can. 767 reserves the homily to priests and deacons.

I agree that (unless there is something in the Canon I don’t get) lay people cannot give the homily. If that is being done it seems like a violation. Of course, this has nothing to do with gender - lay men are in the same boat as lay women. I have seen (non-deacon) Knights of Columbus get up during the ‘homily’ and plea for funds; that is no different.

The difference is that the Knight is not talking about the gospel reading. That is the priests function!.

 

[bkovacs]

Funny, verry funny.
There is an obscure monastic practice still in effect that allows some orders of nuns to be consecrated, and this is the key, consecrated, not ordained to preach the word in absence of a priest. Even a stole is granted:

“A feature unique to Carthusian liturgical practice is that whereby the bishop bestows on Carthusian nuns, in the ceremony of their profession, a stole and a maniple. This is by some interpreted as a relic of the former rite of ordination of deaconesses.[3] The nun is also invested with a crown and a ring. The nun wears these ornaments again only on the day of her monastic jubilee, and after her death on her bier. At Matins, if no priest is present, a nun assumes the stole and reads the Gospel, and although the chanting of the Epistle was, in the time of the Tridentine Mass, reserved to an ordained subdeacon, a consecrated nun sang the Epistle at the conventual Mass, though without wearing the maniple. Carthusian nuns retaine this rite, administered by the diocesan bishop four years after the nun took her vows”

Carthusian nuns wouldn’t be interacting with the parishioners so I’m wondering where in Texas this took place?

Then these 5 women should have become Carthusian nuns.

 

[palmas85]

Funny, verry funny.
There is an obscure monastic practice still in effect that allows some orders of nuns to be consecrated, and this is the key, consecrated, not ordained to preach the word in absence of a priest. Even a stole is granted:

“A feature unique to Carthusian liturgical practice is that whereby the bishop bestows on Carthusian nuns, in the ceremony of their profession, a stole and a maniple. This is by some interpreted as a relic of the former rite of ordination of deaconesses.[3] The nun is also invested with a crown and a ring. The nun wears these ornaments again only on the day of her monastic jubilee, and after her death on her bier. At Matins, if no priest is present, a nun assumes the stole and reads the Gospel, and although the chanting of the Epistle was, in the time of the Tridentine Mass, reserved to an ordained subdeacon, a consecrated nun sang the Epistle at the conventual Mass, though without wearing the maniple. Carthusian nuns retaine this rite, administered by the diocesan bishop four years after the nun took her vows”

Carthusian nuns wouldn’t be interacting with the parishioners so I’m wondering where in Texas this took place?

I can lay your fears at rest my friend. These good sisters were not Carthusian Nuns. Not by a long shot. No, they were a very, very spirit filled, hint Charismatic to a fault, group that were on the cutting edge of modern theology and liturgical practices:thumbsup: In fact they were so much on the cutting edge that at times it appeared that an entire new religion had been born in their midst.

And in any event, the Carthusian Nuns did not handle the consecration itself, am I correct? I don’t believe that particular ability was passed on to them. They merely preached and proclaimed the Word. However, my old friends, the good sisters did indeed handle the consecration, quite often too I might add.

And no they did not use previously consecrated Hosts for their activities. Very few priests that I know of , even in those dark days would have used corn tortillas for the Host.

 

[RochGal]

Saint Anne Church has been broken.

Many families, wonderful families have chosen to leave the parish instead of stay to fight for what is right. It is a painful - and now lonely - battle. I understand that your first obligation is to take care of your own soul and provide spiritual food for your family. That being said, people talked a good game of “hanging in there” and then left. We have come close but darn it…we were there first. I can’t begrudge those families because in my heart I am hurt. Deeply hurt. On several occasions, during the Homily, the parishioners were “scolded’ for being unwelcoming/unwilling to do what those in charge wanted to, etc. I’m sorry, but it is not natural for a Nun to be sitting next to the priest in a white alb.

Every other Parish in our area is led by a woman–oops…Pastorial Associate, ect… And sadly there tends to be a creepy “look at me up here" factor when these woman perform their ‘duties’.

My personal favorite is the woman who banks a little Asian gong after everyone receives Communion, allowing them a moment for personal reflection. When the little gong thing is hit again, we can have the Priest say closing prayer.

There is nowhere else to go - except the Latin Mass (which is not an option right now).
I miss the feeling of community. I miss feeling joy at Mass.
This journey is profoundly painful but I am trying to remember that the Way of the Cross was too.

You have the right idea idea about it being the liberal clergy’s answer to women priests but it ain’t sad :nope: this infiltration is vicious, relentless and well thought out.

In 2008 Bishop Matthew Clark of Rochester appointed the notorious dissenter Sister Joan Sobala as pastoral administrator, i.e., de facto priestess, over the tradition-friendly St. Anne Church. The Women’s Ordination Conference calls her a person “key to the survival and success of the movement for women’s ordination.”
To date - she is ‘the man’ that delivers at the time reserved for the homily.
This methodical turnover has been churning and writhing like an unstoppable snake.

We’re no longer in our own time ladies and gentlemen.

It’s really wrong here.

They are relentless.

And they are very, very hungry.