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T
Teabag
Guest
Nice one Pope Francis. God Bless you
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
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chero23
Guest
I hope this can close the gap between both religions.
M
MaryT777
Guest
It’s difficult to understand why the Pope would reach out with such a gesture ( to me) with the LWF which has members which embrace female ordination, homosexual marriage, and have a lack of strong pro life stance.
I wonder if this contributes to what they say around here in my neck of the woods a lack of “Catholic strong Catholic Identity” among Catholics “in the pew” supporting same sex marriage, female ordination, etc.
Mary.
I wonder if this contributes to what they say around here in my neck of the woods a lack of “Catholic strong Catholic Identity” among Catholics “in the pew” supporting same sex marriage, female ordination, etc.
Mary.
K
katy
Guest
Celebrate the beginning of the fracturing of the Church into thousands of pieces? The more I hear, the more worried I get.
C
chero23
Guest
I believe in what our pope does. Something positive will come out of this.
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theropod
Guest
It’s a commemoration, not a celebration. Americans commemorate the attack on Pearl Harbor every year.
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FractalFire
Guest
:ehh:
Maybe if the Lutheran church still supported marriage and the morals espoused by Christianity, I could be happy about this, but the idea of one of the world’s largest churches drawing closer to a very liberal church like this Swedish church is… unsettling. I hope for peace between denominations, but not at the risk of dangerous compromises, which this might be.
To be honest, I’ve always worried about what would happen to Catholics if your papacy was corrupted in some way. Would most follow the truth or would most follow a corrupt Pope into ruin? I certainly know that some Catholics in the U.S. would be quite happy if the church drastically changed some of its more unpopular views… [No offense intended to any of you here, that’s just always been a concern of mine, considering that you *do occasionally have very liberal theologians and priests sometimes.]
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FollowChrist34
Guest
To the extent that we are trying to heal the wounds of the past and build unity, communion, I am fine with it. But as far as I know the confessional Lutherans are not exactly on board here; they are not the ones we are approaching; as far as I am concerned we need to bond/make peace with them if we are going to heal this particular ‘Lutheran’ divide. Simple as that. Depends on how you interpret the gesture; or more to the point what is the true goal of it. This is like a gathering with the US Episcopalians, no?
I could be wrong. It is, after all, completely possible to have an ecumenical goal of increased unity as Christians, without embracing the various doctrinal differences between us and this group of Lutheran Churches.
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Della
Guest
Okay, everyone, let’s breathe deeply. We shouldn’t take the article at face value. It, like most article these days, tries to stir up controversy more than report facts, and contains outright theological bloopers–also typical.
The Pope is not embracing the errors of the LWF. He is merely reaching out to them. How can fractures be healed if no one makes a gesture towards reunification? The split that took place 500 years ago is still dividing Christians. Is it is ever to be healed, someone has to take steps towards healing.
The most probably outcome, as I see it, will be:
People will be confused–at first. Any time a leader tries to mend a fence some people think there will no longer be any fence, in this case, meaning that the Church’s teachings will mean nothing. That’s not going to happen.
On the positive side, some non-Catholics may realize the Church isn’t the bad things they think she is and will be attracted to her. St. Pope John Paul II certainly did that by reaching out, even though he had critics on every side, let’s remember.
People will misunderstand and get upset. Our faith is not based on the actions of any one pope, good or bad. The Church is still protected by Christ’s promises. So, there’s no need to worry.
Some will think the Church is going to change her teachings–she won’t.
Pope Francis is merely acknowledging what the Church already teaches–that other ecclesial Christian bodies have God’s grace operating in them because God will not squash any attempt to draw near to him. In reaching out Pope Francis is encouraging that grace to blossom all the more. Hopefully, it will help the LWF redirect its path closer to the truths passed down by the Apostles.
The Pope is not embracing the errors of the LWF. He is merely reaching out to them. How can fractures be healed if no one makes a gesture towards reunification? The split that took place 500 years ago is still dividing Christians. Is it is ever to be healed, someone has to take steps towards healing.
The most probably outcome, as I see it, will be:
People will be confused–at first. Any time a leader tries to mend a fence some people think there will no longer be any fence, in this case, meaning that the Church’s teachings will mean nothing. That’s not going to happen.
On the positive side, some non-Catholics may realize the Church isn’t the bad things they think she is and will be attracted to her. St. Pope John Paul II certainly did that by reaching out, even though he had critics on every side, let’s remember.
People will misunderstand and get upset. Our faith is not based on the actions of any one pope, good or bad. The Church is still protected by Christ’s promises. So, there’s no need to worry.
Some will think the Church is going to change her teachings–she won’t.
Pope Francis is merely acknowledging what the Church already teaches–that other ecclesial Christian bodies have God’s grace operating in them because God will not squash any attempt to draw near to him. In reaching out Pope Francis is encouraging that grace to blossom all the more. Hopefully, it will help the LWF redirect its path closer to the truths passed down by the Apostles.
M
MaryT777
Guest
It is correct that the confessional Lutherans are not participating in this. At least a LCMS poster noted as such on another thread… We have more in common morals wise with the confessional Lutherans but the old doctrine of the Pope sitting in the seat of the AntiChrist is a real stumbling block I am sure. LCMS/WELS do not ordain women, have the same view on women ordination as the Catholic Curch and a strong pro life stance.
It would be good to see further dialogue with the LCMS…
Mary.
It would be good to see further dialogue with the LCMS…
Mary.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Agreed. Maybe the Pope can go to St. Louis Missouri and do the same with the LCMS when he’s done in Scandinavia. I bet he’d go in a heartbeat, in all fairness. I would also bet they might even invite him. All in all, we are on a good course. More good than bad. Step by step.
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badnewsbarrett
Guest
I seriously doubt that Pope Francis is attending with the purpose of celebrating the Reformation. Instead…imagine this for a moment.
Suppose you’re a Lutheran, and you attend this particular Lutheran church. On normal Sundays that are close to October 31, you might actually celebrate the Reformation, insofar as giving some recognition to certain Reformers, although there might also be a touch of regret for the lack of unity. But if you’re a Lutheran, you’re probably putting a good amount of blame on the Catholic Church, and this is a Sunday on which you will look to the positive things on your own side and celebrate them to some extent.
Now imagine that you show up at church for an extra-momentous 500 year anniversary. It’s still something that you have mixed feelings about, but 500 is a big anniversary. The Catholics never wanted the Lutherans to make it this far, but look at us now, 500 years on! Check that out! Take that, Catholic Church! And then the Pope is here. And you’re celebrating the anniversary (to whatever extent you celebrate it) with him present.
Ok, so this is a celebration that’s going to be a lot different than usual. As for its larger effect- I assume all Lutherans will be made aware of this by the time that date comes around, and Lutherans everywhere will look at the 500 year mark as a watershed moment, where those first 500 years wind up being significantly different from the next 500 years. This is something that Catholics in general always hoped would be the case anyway, and they hope that something can swing back their way, but when you watch from a distance and hope for something without influencing it in any way- good luck.
I look at this as the Pope making his own luck to the benefit of the Catholic Church’s interests. He’s getting right up in there- in a perfectly nice and friendly manner- and he’s lending his influence to the course that the Lutheran Church will take in the coming years/decades/centuries. He’s not a key decision maker when it comes to the fate of the Lutheran Church, and the papacy hasn’t had that role in quite a long time. It might not be too much of an exaggeration to say that the Catholic Church spent a whole century on each of the “five stages of grief” that finally leads to acceptance of that fact- but on the whole, if you do accept that the leader of the Catholic Church does not have any decision making authority among the Lutherans, surely you would prefer to see him exert some type of influence instead of settling in the direction of having none, or virtually none.
J
JustaServant
Guest
I am sure the Trads are going into anaphylactic shock over this.
Fundamentalists are already declaring a one-world church and are getting ready for the Rapture.
Meanwhile, in Normalville Catholics and Lutherans look forward to the opportunity.
Fundamentalists are already declaring a one-world church and are getting ready for the Rapture.
Meanwhile, in Normalville Catholics and Lutherans look forward to the opportunity.
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Convert_in_99
Guest
Great post! I agree! :clapping:
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
This is really scary.
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Reuben_J
Guest
A good one. Thanks. We are quite emotional now. Thing as big as this will take some time to sink in. So it may just as well for a non-Catholic being mmore objective to see the bigger picture.
God bless.
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Peter_J
Guest
You said it.
To those who change the words “commemorate the Reformation” to “celebrate the Reformation” I ask: are Catholics and Lutherans also going to “celebrate” the anniversary of the Council of Trent?
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Scott_D
Guest
I agree with you in theory, but since the Church possesses the fullness of truth, the Lutherans should come back like the prodigal son. In other words, they need to close the gap and accept the truth of the Church.
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