500 years after reformation, Pope knocks on Lutherans' door

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Scott_D said:
I agree with you in theory, but since the Church possesses the fullness of truth, the Lutherans should come back like the prodigal son. In other words, they need to close the gap and accept the truth of the Church.
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“The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right.”-G.K. Chesterton
That said, I think both Catholics and Lutherans, need to work together for Christian unity. I agree the Church possesses the fullness of truth, but we need to be able to explain our faith to non-Catholics in a way that is palatable to them. John 17:21. That prayer was a prayer for all of us.
 
Della said:
People will misunderstand and get upset. Our faith is not based on the actions of any one pope, good or bad. The Church is still protected by Christ’s promises. So, there’s no need to worry.

Some will think the Church is going to change her teachings–she won’t
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👍

The Catholic faith is the Deposit of Faith and that cannot be changed by anyone, not even a pope. The Church has the protection of the Holy Spirit.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
“The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right.”-G.K. Chesterton
That said, I think both Catholics and Lutherans, need to work together for Christian unity. I agree the Church possesses the fullness of truth, but we need to be able to explain our faith to non-Catholics in a way that is palatable to them. John 17:21. That prayer was a prayer for all of us.
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“The Revolutions of the Young”, ILLUSTRATED LONDON NEWS, 28 Oct 1922.

“While he is always right about what is wrong, he is generally wrong about what is right”.

In G.K. CHESTERTON COLLECTED WORKS, vol XXXII, Illustrated London News 1920-1922, p. 475.
 
Scott_D said:
I agree with you in theory, but since the Church possesses the fullness of truth, the Lutherans should come back like the prodigal son. In other words, they need to close the gap and accept the truth of the Church.
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Most of the gap was created by misunderstandings, politics, and economics (all fomented by the sins of men).

As more an more evangelical communities drift away from the Apostolic faith, those within them that recognize they are going in the wrong direction will be more likely to revert to the Catholic faith.
 
What was it Jesus gave Peter ? Wasn’t it the Keys to the Kingdom. And are these keys not passed on to Peter’s Successor in Catholic traditions ? And therefore whom Peter sets aside Jesus will set aside also. Be careful then how you pick and choose from the successor of Peter’s teaching.
As for me I support an older tradition of the very earliest Jerusalem Church and from its leader James ( then called Jacob) and therefore have no great difficulty with the teachings of the social gospel.
 
The Pope is reaching out to Lutherans, not Lutheranism. In Sweden, the dominant brand of religion is liberal (I would say secularized). He’s not saying that’s good where they are. But if that’s where they are now, that’s where he will go. I am sure there is variation among individuals, in their views about religion and other things. Some individuals won’t listen to his views at all. Others will. Most won’t follow up by looking more into Catholic ideas. Some will.

I fully agree the Church should do far more cooperative building to the LCMS, for instance.
The LCMS, as an organization, is far better IMHO that the Swedish group. That is an important priority. But that won’t reach the individuals here, in Sweden. Those individuals have far fewer spiritual and guidance resources than the individuals in the LCMS. So the Pope will go to Sweden.

To put it another way, Catholic chaplains often go right onto the campus of very secular
universities. They don’t endorse the anti-Catholic atmosphere there. But because many individuals are there, priests go there, too. They speak to groups, whenever given a chance. Yes there are risks - they don’t want to be construed as endorsing bad things. They also don’t want the Church to be isolated. So it’s a judgement call.

I guess the pope is thinking the benefit usually outweighs the risks. That is not always true, but it likely is, in this case.
 
Personally I think Pope Francis just wants to be nice and achieve some sort of unity. Sure, the Swedish church may hold some viewpoints that are anathema to orthodox thought, but perhaps Pope Francis is hoping that by having a dialogue something could come out of it. I used to wonder if he was maybe too liberal, but if you really think about it he has not really made any significant changes to church practice; he’s simply been speaking with a softer tone, if you will. And honestly, I like that about him; he upholds traditional viewpoints, yet he does so in a way that is more pastoral.
 
We are in the year of God’s Mercy. The Pope is a living example of God’s mercy reaching out to those who may be in need of the Physician.

Pope Francis practices what he preaches. The Lutheran Church door the pope knocks on, is not the same Lutheran Church in practice from 500 years ago. For example; woman priesthood, practicing gay clerics were not implemented by the Lutheran founders. How is such a change in Lutheran practice to be commemorated?

A true shepherd spares no expense to search out and find one lost sheep, I pray the mercy of God reaches that one lost sheep among the many and has ears to hear his/her shepherds voice.

I do not think the Pope is knocking on the Lutheran door to give a theological discourse to the Lutheran Church body. The Pope is bringing a light that exposes the path of God’s mercy to any and all whom God is calling.

The Catholic Church is not looking for enemies to battle with, the Catholic Church is in search of God’s mercy to bring God’s mercy.

The Pope is not called to make friends in order to compromise his apostolic faith or become complacent to achieve a false unity. Peter brings the good news to any and all who are need of the physician.

Peace be with you
 
Reunification will be a long process. I doubt we will see it in our lifetime. The Protestants must see the error of consubstantiation and other topics.I am not sure how many of their theologians are trained to explain how they have been wrong for all these years in such a way as to lead the Lutherans back to the true faith. Good on them if they try

. We on the other hand are the solid true Church of Jesus Christ. They are not. It will be nice to see them come back to the True Faith.
 
Hi Mary,
MaryT777 said:
It’s difficult to understand why the Pope would reach out with such a gesture ( to me) with the LWF which has members which embrace female ordination, homosexual marriage, and have a lack of strong pro life stance.

I wonder if this contributes to what they say around here in my neck of the woods a lack of “Catholic strong Catholic Identity” among Catholics “in the pew” supporting same sex marriage, female ordination, etc.

Mary.
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I think that this is an indication that the liberal forces on both sides of the aisle are becoming even more powerful within each of their communions. And as we all know, the (theological) liberals in ALL communions are FAR less concerned about doctrine than they are about portraying a perception of consensus.

To your point, as we all know, there are a lot of people within the Church who would like to see Catholicism embrace female ordination, same sex marriage, and more ‘tolerant’ teachings on things like abortion. In other words, they would like to see us become more like Protestantism, and in fact, would like to have people believe that we ARE more like Protestantism doctrinally.

Of course, the Church simply cannot ever accept same sex marriage, female ordination, etc, but that will not stop the liberals within our ranks from pushing for more ‘progressive’ Church teachings.

God Bless You Mary, Topper
 
Topper17 said:
Hi Mary,

I think that this is an indication that the liberal forces on both sides of the aisle are becoming even more powerful within each of their communions. And as we all know, the (theological) liberals in ALL communions are FAR less concerned about doctrine than they are about portraying a perception of consensus.

To your point, as we all know, there are a lot of people within the Church who would like to see Catholicism embrace female ordination, same sex marriage, and more ‘tolerant’ teachings on things like abortion. In other words, they would like to see us become more like Protestantism, and in fact, would like to have people believe that we ARE more like Protestantism doctrinally.

Of course, the Church simply cannot ever accept same sex marriage, female ordination, etc, but that will not stop the liberals within our ranks from pushing for more ‘progressive’ Church teachings.

God Bless You Mary, Topper
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I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Better that we truly appreciate and understand where we stand so that we can find ways to work together within acceptable limits, than to pretend we’re not divided.

Lord, have mercy on us all.
 
Topper17 said:
Hi Mary,

I think that this is an indication that the liberal forces on both sides of the aisle are becoming even more powerful within each of their communions. And as we all know, the (theological) liberals in ALL communions are FAR less concerned about doctrine than they are about portraying a perception of consensus.

To your point, as we all know, there are a lot of people within the Church who would like to see Catholicism embrace female ordination, same sex marriage, and more ‘tolerant’ teachings on things like abortion. In other words, they would like to see us become more like Protestantism, and in fact, would like to have people believe that we ARE more like Protestantism doctrinally.

Of course, the Church simply cannot ever accept same sex marriage, female ordination, etc, but that will not stop the liberals within our ranks from pushing for more ‘progressive’ Church teachings.

God Bless You Mary, Topper
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Hi Topper,

It’s good to see you on the forums again. I completely agree with you but I find solace in the promises of the Bible that the gates of hell will not Prevail against the Catholic Church. Our misguided brother and sisters in the faith with the liberal ideas of women ordination and same sex marriage will not prevail. We will NEVER see such approval of these teachings in the Church.

God bless you Topper.
Mary.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
Scott D;13668506:
I agree with you in theory, but since the Church possesses the fullness of truth, the Lutherans should come back like the prodigal son. In other words, they need to close the gap and accept the truth of the Church.
Click to expand...
“The reformer is always right about what is wrong. He is generally wrong about what is right.”-G.K. Chesterton
That said, I think both Catholics and Lutherans, need to work together for Christian unity. I agree the Church possesses the fullness of truth, but we need to be able to explain our faith to non-Catholics in a way that is palatable to them. John 17:21. That prayer was a prayer for all of us.
Click to expand...
Scott D, I honestly don’t get why so many people think that we can convince others that we are right just by telling them over and over. And nobody seems to want to explain it to me.

adamhovey1988 (well, and GKC :)), that’s a good quote but I would point out that there are exception. For example, presumably we can agree that Vatican I was right about what’s wrong *and *about what’s right. :hmmm:
 
Peter_J said:
Scott D, I honestly don’t get why so many people think that we can convince others that we are right just by telling them over and over. And nobody seems to want to explain it to me.

adamhovey1988 (well, and GKC :)), that’s a good quote but I would point out that there are exception. For example, presumably we can agree that Vatican I was right about what’s wrong *and *about what’s right. :hmmm:
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Wait a minute. You’re saying that something G. K. Chesterton said wasn’t 100% accurate, universally applicable, and correct, even if taken from context and used as a gotcha in a board post? Shocking! I must go and reread THE NEW JERUSALEM to recover.

OTOH, I’m not all that fond of Vat I myself. But that’s just me.
 
GKC said:
Wait a minute. You’re saying that something G. K. Chesterton said wasn’t 100% accurate, universally applicable, and correct, even if taken from context and used as a gotcha in a board post? Shocking! I must go and reread THE NEW JERUSALEM to recover.
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I’m sorry, but yes. “100% accurate, universally applicable, and correct” only apply to Chesterton when I agree with him while function as my own infallible Pope. 😃

(I’ve been making a point to always state that I’m kidding … but in this case surely everyone reading already figured that out.)
 
Peter_J said:
I’m sorry, but yes. “100% accurate, universally applicable, and correct” only apply to Chesterton when I agree with him while function as my own infallible Pope. 😃

(I’ve been making a point to always state that I’m kidding … but in this case surely everyone reading already figured that out.)
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Naw. It marches well with my own approach.
 
GKC said:
Wait a minute. You’re saying that something G. K. Chesterton said wasn’t 100% accurate, universally applicable, and correct, even if taken from context and used as a gotcha in a board post? Shocking! I must go and reread THE NEW JERUSALEM to recover.

OTOH, I’m not all that fond of Vat I myself. But that’s just me.
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Then again, Vatican I may in a roundabout way facilitate reunion, at least with many of the communions which began at the reformation. It teaches (prophecies) that orthodox doctrine is singular. At the time, just about all Protestants and Anglicans would have said, “well of course it is singular. No Christian communion would ever suggest plurality of historic Christian dogma. That is obviously fixed and singular… um… like the single, unchangeable definition of marriage…”
 
commenter said:
Then again, Vatican I may in a roundabout way facilitate reunion, at least with many of the communions which began at the reformation.
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It would, of course, be very roundabout. But I myself have sometimes thought that Vatican I may play a significant role in history in less-than-obvious ways.

A rather large topic to open … but I’ll just say: Perhaps there was a “waking up” of Catholics after VI.
 
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