57 Years Mormon

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Are you still in contact with your family? I know it’s kind of a mixed bag as to how people respond when you leave.

And I know exactly what you mean about being angry. I left for other reasons, but I was convinced I was damned until I started really looking into what I was taught a few months ago. It’s like a punch in the gut when you finally see how ridiculous it all is and how everything has been manipulated over and over again.
 
For the first year or so, I just wanted to be left alone, so I basically went into hiding from my old LDS friends and family. Since then, I have been in regular contact with my three eldest siblings. It’s all fine, now. Two of my siblings are currently serving missions with their wives and another was released just recently, only because his wife passed away. My family is pretty devout.
 
I’m replying to an earlier post about Hell. In a homily, the priest noted that the Hell that we speak of in the Creed is not the Hell that we commonly think about.

The Hell that Jesus descended to was Abraham’s Bosom which is where the Just souls rested before the first coming of Jesus and before his death. Surely by dying and maybe by rising (I can’t remember), he allowed those souls into Heaven.
 
jaygunther said:
gazelam,

I didn’t get tired of the Mormon church and leave. But I did get tired of the lies. I suppose that as I study Catholicism, I’ll figure those things out. But the Book of Mormon and the current LDS doctrine of the nature of God are clearly in contradiction with one another.
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OK. In what way do see a contradiction between the B of M and current LDS doctrine regarding the nature of God?
jaygunther said:
I’ll answer those questions as I learn the answers.
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Fair enough.
jaygunther said:
In the meantime, will you answer a question for me?
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Sure, I’ll bite.
jaygunther said:
Do you believe that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel and is the keystone of your religion?
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Yes and yes.
 
But why? I don’t understand, how can the Book of Mormon say there’s only one God, and then other Mormon documents say there are multiple gods? Either there’s one God, or there isn’t. I don’t think that’s very consistent position to have.
 
jaygunther said:
I just started having a lot of doubts. Mormons usually bury their heads in the sand over difficult issues, particularly with regard to their own history. I have NEVER been one to read anti-Mormon literature, in fact, I was always the one who staunchly defended the Mormon Church.

Before my final exit, I gave an honest and sincere attempt to get a testimony of the Book of Mormon. I read it one last time over the course of about five weeks, starting each study with prayer and ending with prayer. I tested Moroni’s promise to study and ask with real intent to know if the Book of Mormon were NOT true. I received a pretty strong witness that it was not true.
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Some time ago I heard about the thousands of incredible similarities found in the BOM and a novel called “The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain” published in 1816. It seems clear that Joseph Smith plagiarized this book. You can see the similarities here: The Book of Mormon and The Late War
 
Yep. The BoM says there’s only one God. Mormons teach a plurality of Gods. The BoM teaches that God is a spirit. Mormons teach that God has a body of flesh and bones. The BoM teaches that God can dwell in your heart. Mormons not only don’t believe that but used to mock it in the pre-1990 temple ceremony. The BoM teaches that God cannot lie but the Mormons teach that lying is of God. The BoM teaches that God is unchangeable but Mormons believe just the opposite. It is mind boggling.

Mormons also believe that the “fullness of the gospel” includes the ordinances necessary for salvation, yet the BofM which supposedly contains the fullness of the gospel is silent on several of these saving ordinances like baptism for the dead, the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, sealing families together, the initiatories and the endowment of the temple, and the second anointing.

I could be crazy but I would think that if something were the keystone of my faith that it would include the key practices of my faith. But that’s just me . . .
 
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One more. The BoM teaches that Jesus was born in Jerusalem. Mormons teach that he was born in Bethlehem.
 
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And it gets even more confusing when you start examining the changes in the BoM regarding who is God and who is the Son. These changes were MAJOR!
 
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Well, yeah, the KJV Bible (which is the only bible Mormons use, if I recall correctly) says "Bethlehem. Now, if I do recall, he was crucified in Jerusalem. (Because I read my Bible, so I know this)
 
That’s a very good reason, and you are far from alone. So many LDS are leaving after discovering the exact same issues. I just attended an event in Seattle the other day for Mormons in transition. The seminar was given by John Dehlin. I’m sure you are quite familiar with his work, but if not he is the founder of mormonstories.org. His podcasts (he’s up to about 800 of them now) have helped thousands of LDS through the difficult and painful process of leaving. He was eventually excommunicated from the LDS church for doing this work.

Catholics who have not experienced or witnessed a Mormon transition out of Mormonism have no idea how painful the process is. It’s like having the rug pulled out from under everything you ever believed your whole life. It’s a terrible experience for many who feel so betrayed by the church they gave everything to for so many years. I wish you the very best and send you my prayers. Just remember it takes time for the hurt to subside, but there is light at the end. But I’m sure you already know that.
 
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What??? What on earth are you talking about? The Catholic Church does not condemn someone to hell because they leave the Church. Where are you getting that nonsense from?
 
That is so true. They have been taught all their lives that you will be miserable if you ever leave the LDS church. They are told that there is nothing out there better for them, that they will be lost if they leave. It’s based on fear, and is one of the many cult-like behaviors of the LDS church. LDS say all the time in fast-and-testimony meetings that they just don’t know what they would do if they didn’t have the church, as if only misery awaits them outside. So manipulative, and so very sad.
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
What??? What on earth are you talking about? The Catholic Church does not condemn someone to hell because they leave the Church. Where are you getting that nonsense from?
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To know the catholic faith and reject it is a mortal sin. If someone dies with a mortal sin on their soul they spend eternity in hell, is that true or not true?
 
Where did I get an idea like that? By hearing it from Patrick Madrid, Jimmy Akin, Tim Staples, Terry and Jessie, reading it in the catichism.
 
jaygunther said:
A few months ago, I entered a Catholic mass. There’s no description I can adequately give of the feelings that I had being there. Yeah, it was a little weird at first, but with each new week became a new breath of life. It’s been nothing but joy. We are NOT the Church of the Devil. And if we are, then send me to hell.
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Wow. Very moving. Thank you for this and, again, happy to have you as a brother in Christ.
 
thedweh said:
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Chris-Wa1:
What??? What on earth are you talking about? The Catholic Church does not condemn someone to hell because they leave the Church. Where are you getting that nonsense from?
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To know the catholic faith and reject it is a mortal sin. If someone dies with a mortal sin on their soul they spend eternity in hell, is that true or not true?
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From this very website;

"Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, but the issue of who in particular will go to hell is undecided. "

God is the judge and whether you have committed mortal sin of which you are unrepentant and fully culpable is solely God’s to decide. Your approach to the topic is drastically over-simplified.

Ours is a God of love and mercy, first and foremost.
 
Vonsalza said:
Ours is a God of love and mercy, first and foremost.
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And yet He creates certian people with full knoweledge that they will spend eternity in hell and that those people would not end up in hell if He had not created them by his own choice. How is that love and mercy?
I have heard Patrick Madrid and Jimmy Akin try to answer this several times, it’s pretty funny when they do.
 
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thedweh said:
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Vonsalza:
Ours is a God of love and mercy, first and foremost.
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And yet He creates certian people with full knoweledge that they will spend eternity in hell and that those people would not end up in hell if He had not created them by his own choice. How is that love and mercy?
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Oh, that old chestnut has been cracked time and time again; and the answer is the same if you’re Catholic or Mormon:

God loved us so much that we were given free moral agency. He may have known that a particular soul would have chosen to hard-heartedly rebel against Him, but they still chose to do it. As such, they are culpable and responsible for their own actions.
I, for one, am thrilled that He didn’t make me a purely deterministic robot…
 
The Catechism says no such thing. Neither do those people. That is just plain dishonest.

Also, in my entire life as a Catholic, I have never heard any priest or apologist or anyone else ever tell Catholics that they will go to hell if they leave the Church. If that were the case, then the Church would be grossly neglecting its responsibility to communicate the possibility of such punishment and preventing its members from leaving. On the contrary, if someone doesn’t believe in it anymore they are free to go. No one is going to bombard them with threats of eternal damnation. They are not going to be pulled into a church court and excommunicated, as so many ex-Mormons have experienced. It’s not even remotely comparable.
 
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