5th Marian dogma

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Besides, what higher title could she possibly get than Theotokos, Mother of God. Every other title we could possibly give her would be lower.
 
Yep come to think of it I think Mary being humble would appreciate that. I’m not too sure that she expects us to call her all these titles. Mary was very humble
 
nordskoven said:
The “Final Dogma” is the work of condemned Dutch seer Ida Peerdeman whose “Mary” appeared to her shaking her fist, demanding that the “faithful” pressure the Vatican to adopt said “Final Dogma.” The “Final Dogma” consists of this: “The Lady of All Nations Who Once Was Mary: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate.”

“God the Father” appeared to Ida Peerdeman and had unkind things to say about the Jews just as the NAZI’s were scooping up the likes of Anne Frank. Steubenville Professor Mark Miravalle feels he has the freedom to disregard the Vatican’s instruction to not disseminate condemned works and does so through his group VOX POPULI (“voice of the people”) VOX POPULI engineered the petition drive that has swamped the Vatican with millions of signatures demanding the adoption of the “Final Dogma.”

Telling the Vatican to adopt some Marian Dogma to save the world doesn’t even compare to insisting that it is the “Final Dogma.” It is telling the Vatican to close the books on Marian dogma. Usually dogma is defined in response to confusion that needs the teaching authority of the Church to clarify.

Ida Peerdeman’s seerdom has been condemned since Pius XII. Miravalle wanted to do an end run around that technicality and VOX POPULI lobbied to have the “Final Dogma” considered on its own merits apart from the Ida Peerdeman angle. Under Cardinal Ratzinger, the Vatican dismissed the “Final Dogma” as confusing and unecessary. Which it is. One can still buy Ida Peerdeman’s work through VOX POPULI’s publishing arm, Queenship Publishing.
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Citation for condemnation please!
 
I’m glad were agreeing on that as I think it’s easy to get confused about it all. Simplicity is best.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Besides, what higher title could she possibly get than Theotokos, Mother of God. Every other title we could possibly give her would be lower.
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The purpose of the dogma wouldn’t be to assign Mary another title but to understand her role in God’s redemptive plan for mankind and our salvation. IMHO I believe the more we know about Mary the more we will know about Christ, since His humanity was taken from her. Mary formed Christ when he was an infant and instructed Him up until His adult life and since we are called to imitate Christ we too must be obedient to her and allow her to assist in our formation.

Christ said no servant is above their Master, and if our Master Jesus Christ was subject to Mary then we are also called to be subject to Mary. I also believe we are called to have a special devotion to Saint Joseph for the same reason. Saint Joseph I think gives a perfect example of what it’s like for all of us to have true devotion to Jesus in Mary. At first Joseph was apprehensive about taking Mary as his wife just like how we are apprehensive when it comes to taking Mary as our spiritual mother. However, like Joseph, if we choose not to put Mary away but accept her into our life we will then be given one of the greatest treasures and that is a perfect relationship with our Lord; we will be part of the Holy Family.
 
nordskoven said:
The “Final Dogma” is the work of condemned Dutch seer Ida Peerdeman whose “Mary” appeared to her shaking her fist, demanding that the “faithful” pressure the Vatican to adopt said “Final Dogma.” The “Final Dogma” consists of this: “The Lady of All Nations Who Once Was Mary: Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate.”

“God the Father” appeared to Ida Peerdeman and had unkind things to say about the Jews just as the NAZI’s were scooping up the likes of Anne Frank. Steubenville Professor Mark Miravalle feels he has the freedom to disregard the Vatican’s instruction to not disseminate condemned works and does so through his group VOX POPULI (“voice of the people”) VOX POPULI engineered the petition drive that has swamped the Vatican with millions of signatures demanding the adoption of the “Final Dogma.”

Telling the Vatican to adopt some Marian Dogma to save the world doesn’t even compare to insisting that it is the “Final Dogma.” It is telling the Vatican to close the books on Marian dogma. Usually dogma is defined in response to confusion that needs the teaching authority of the Church to clarify.

Ida Peerdeman’s seerdom has been condemned since Pius XII. Miravalle wanted to do an end run around that technicality and VOX POPULI lobbied to have the “Final Dogma” considered on its own merits apart from the Ida Peerdeman angle. Under Cardinal Ratzinger, the Vatican dismissed the “Final Dogma” as confusing and unecessary. Which it is. One can still buy Ida Peerdeman’s work through VOX POPULI’s publishing arm, Queenship Publishing.
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This “Mary” sounds like a demon or devil that needs to feed on the fears and energy of man to fight God then something holy and of Jesus. 🤷
Christine85 said:
According to the apparitions of Our lady of All Nations, which has been approved by the Bishops, Mary said she wants people to petition the Holy Father for the dogma because once that is a dogma she can fully provide her intercession and help bring about peace.
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This so-called “Mary” needs man to grant her a title before she does something good and loving on our behalf. This “Mary” sound less like a loving Mother but more like a selfish devil or a spoiled brat. :confused:
 
Swiss_Guy said:
But Swiss Cheese is soo much better than Cheddar. It is an infallible teaching of the ordinary and universal magisterium.😉

Anyway, although I agree with the titles for explanations people here have already brought up, I don’t see why they should be dogma because all it will do is likely cause confusion, especially the co-redemptrix part. Even though any good Catholic should already agree with it.🤷
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In a conversation with then Cardinal Ratzinger Peter Seewald asked: Meanwhile, more than a million people are urging that the Catholic Church should raise Mary to the status of “Co-redemptrix”. Will the Church go along with this desire–or is this an error?

Answer: "I do not think there will be any compliance with this demand, which in the meantime is being supported by several million people, within the foreseeable future. The response of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is, broadly, that what is signified by this is already better expressed in other titles of Mary, while the formula “Co-redemptrix” departs to too great an extent from the language of Scripture and of the Fathers and therefore gives rise to misunderstandings.

What is true here? Well, it is true that Christ does not remain outside us or to one side of us, but builds a profound and new community with us. Everything that is his becomes ours, and everything that is ours he has taken upon himself, so that it became his: this great exchange is the actual content of redemption, the removal of limitations from our self and its extension into community with God. Because Mary is the prototype of the Church as such and is, so to say, the Church in person, this being “with” is realized in her in exemplary fashion. But this “with” must not lead us to forget the “first” of Christ: Everything comes from him, as the Letter to the Ephesians and the Letter to the Colossians, in particular, tell us; Mary, too, is everything that she is through him.

The word “Co-redemptrix” would obscure this origin. A correct intention is being expressed in the wrong way. For matters of faith, continuity of terminology with the language of Scripture and that of the Fathers is itself an essential element; it is improper simply to manipulate language."
[Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, *God and the World: A Conversion with Peter Seewald. Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 2002, p. 306] Bold added.
 
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