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Exalt
Guest
The OP is a smart guy and deserves to hear all sides.
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blessedtoo
Guest
Sorry. Op is Catholic. This is a Catholic forum. There are no “sides”. Just the truth.
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Exalt
Guest
Yes, he’s Catholic. Yes, this is a Catholic forum. But no, there are sides. The problem is, the truth is that there’s no good reason for him to believe that homosexuality is wrong.
If your position is true, it will stand up to criticism and other viewpoints.
C
cor
Guest
The Catechism just says that its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2357.htm
It does come from the fall of Adam in the sense that disordering of the passions is an effect of original sin.
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blessedtoo
Guest
Hmm, let’s review: Young earnest Catholic man posts a thread requesting Catholic support regarding Catholic teaching (aka; the TRUTH). You stop by to,…to,…what? To contradict the Church again? To confuse the OP with your opinion? To convert him from his Catholic faith to your “n/a” religion? To draw him into sin? What’s your purpose?
If you wish to express criticism, you should pick on someone your own size (or have you tired everyone else with the same old rhetoric) and leave those who are young and striving to be holy alone. It’s not very nice of you at all.
L
LilyM
Guest
To the OP, many many people on here struggle with all types of habitual mortal sins, including many different kinds of sexual sin, and addictions of various kinds. The processes and advice are remarkably similar for them all.
6 months feels like an age, but it isn’t that long a time at all. After all, most habits take longer than that to develop, it’s not reasonable to expect that you’ll kick 'em in a few months.
Just hang in, keep praying. Know that we’re all praying for you too. Do your best to remove temptation from your environment (or yourself from temptation). Confess any slipups or relapses as soon as possible. Every day (or several times a day even) take yourself and your struggles to God in prayer and renew your commitment to following His commandments.
6 months feels like an age, but it isn’t that long a time at all. After all, most habits take longer than that to develop, it’s not reasonable to expect that you’ll kick 'em in a few months.
Just hang in, keep praying. Know that we’re all praying for you too. Do your best to remove temptation from your environment (or yourself from temptation). Confess any slipups or relapses as soon as possible. Every day (or several times a day even) take yourself and your struggles to God in prayer and renew your commitment to following His commandments.
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ocuinn
Guest
To feel homosexual is not a mortal sin. By saying this you create confusion over Catholic teaching. It is the acts that are sinful not the actual desires.
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LilyM
Guest
My apologies. You’re correct, of course. Attraction to the same sex is not sinful at all in itself and I had no intent to imply that it was.
But the correct basic course of action is the same as if it was. And the same as in all the other situations I’ve mentioned.
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Ayeaiii
Guest
Hello,
Wow, such a lot of response, I must aplogise for that I cannot really reply to it all well. But thank you anyways, I have read it all and considered it. I must say, I make no judgement on whether homosexuality is reversable or not, or how one come to be this way, all I need to know is what a good Catholic would do. However, I mean not to dismiss any other views because I think it is all important to consider if helps to answer the question, I guess what the church perspective is on various things like are people born homosexual have some debate.
Exalt, I notice your views are different from most. May i ask to you a little more explanation? Is your view gained from a religious perspective or not (because I know there are groups who do interpret the Bible as such), and if so maybe may you explain a little more? Just so I can understand better. Thank you x
I think all things considered I will continue much as I have but 2 things; confess, and maybe ask for advice there at my church if it seems appropriate, and also to be mindful of that all of us have temptations of all kinds that we work through in various ways so I guess this is not disaster really!
thank you again x
Wow, such a lot of response, I must aplogise for that I cannot really reply to it all well. But thank you anyways, I have read it all and considered it. I must say, I make no judgement on whether homosexuality is reversable or not, or how one come to be this way, all I need to know is what a good Catholic would do. However, I mean not to dismiss any other views because I think it is all important to consider if helps to answer the question, I guess what the church perspective is on various things like are people born homosexual have some debate.
Exalt, I notice your views are different from most. May i ask to you a little more explanation? Is your view gained from a religious perspective or not (because I know there are groups who do interpret the Bible as such), and if so maybe may you explain a little more? Just so I can understand better. Thank you x
I think all things considered I will continue much as I have but 2 things; confess, and maybe ask for advice there at my church if it seems appropriate, and also to be mindful of that all of us have temptations of all kinds that we work through in various ways so I guess this is not disaster really!
thank you again x
U
urban-hermit
Guest
Dear Ayeaiii,
I’m glad that you are seeking a course of action which is consistent with your Catholic faith. I want to encourage you in this because I have found it to be the best way to live, and I have experienced same-sex attractions all my adult life. (I am now 43)
I think it’s key in the beginning of this kind of journey to establish the desirability and many advantages of virtuous living as a Catholic who is cultivating a relationship with Jesus Christ. I have found meditating upon Jesus and His love for all of us very helpful, sometimes by reading the parts of the Gospels where Jesus interacts with real people. Especially men, as this has helped me to strengthen my male identity (which for me personally was somewhat confused).
The most helpful thing for me though has been something I heard in a bible study, which was something along the lines of this: God loves everybody, but one of the attributes of God is that He loves each person as if they were the only person in the universe. That’s a real meditation, isn’t it?
Even though God knows everything, He waits for us to invite Him into our lives - he is the consummate gentleman, never imposing Himself. And since we know as Catholics that the priest acts in the person of Christ to forgive us our sins, even if our offenses are small ones, I think you might find yourself feeling as free as a bird once you hear with your own ears Jesus speaking to you through the priest and saying “I absolve you of all your sins”. I feel you are very blessed at a young age to already be on this journey with the only One Who can promise you consolation in this life and eternal fulfillment in the next.
And even from a purely human point of view, self-control has many advantages. I do think it is key not to dwell upon whatever guilt we might have regarding sexual thoughts, but just to calmly and confidently turn from them toward Our Lord or somebody or something which will lead us toward Him, such as a trusted friend, or a saint in prayer, or a form of work or service which is positive and enjoyable (which it sounds like you are already doing, so right on)… Have you ever read about Saint Thomas Aquinas or Saint Maximillian Kolbe? Both of these men made the decision to strive for purity at a young age.
God bless you and please keep in touch.
Prayers coming your way.
I’m glad that you are seeking a course of action which is consistent with your Catholic faith. I want to encourage you in this because I have found it to be the best way to live, and I have experienced same-sex attractions all my adult life. (I am now 43)
I think it’s key in the beginning of this kind of journey to establish the desirability and many advantages of virtuous living as a Catholic who is cultivating a relationship with Jesus Christ. I have found meditating upon Jesus and His love for all of us very helpful, sometimes by reading the parts of the Gospels where Jesus interacts with real people. Especially men, as this has helped me to strengthen my male identity (which for me personally was somewhat confused).
The most helpful thing for me though has been something I heard in a bible study, which was something along the lines of this: God loves everybody, but one of the attributes of God is that He loves each person as if they were the only person in the universe. That’s a real meditation, isn’t it?
Even though God knows everything, He waits for us to invite Him into our lives - he is the consummate gentleman, never imposing Himself. And since we know as Catholics that the priest acts in the person of Christ to forgive us our sins, even if our offenses are small ones, I think you might find yourself feeling as free as a bird once you hear with your own ears Jesus speaking to you through the priest and saying “I absolve you of all your sins”. I feel you are very blessed at a young age to already be on this journey with the only One Who can promise you consolation in this life and eternal fulfillment in the next.
And even from a purely human point of view, self-control has many advantages. I do think it is key not to dwell upon whatever guilt we might have regarding sexual thoughts, but just to calmly and confidently turn from them toward Our Lord or somebody or something which will lead us toward Him, such as a trusted friend, or a saint in prayer, or a form of work or service which is positive and enjoyable (which it sounds like you are already doing, so right on)… Have you ever read about Saint Thomas Aquinas or Saint Maximillian Kolbe? Both of these men made the decision to strive for purity at a young age.
God bless you and please keep in touch.
Prayers coming your way.
C
cor
Guest
I think the desire is a sin too. It’s the emotions that aren’t sins. So for example, desiring to have homosexual with someone would be a sin – a sin can be just in the will and intellect and be a sin even without outward action. At Mass (I don’t go anymore) there’s a prayer that mentions sins in “thought” as well as “word” and deed (ommission and commission): it’s the “I confess to almighty God…” prayer and called in Latin the Confiteor (sp?)
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Courage_Married
Guest
Actually to just have a same sex attraction is not a sin, but dwelling on it may be. Similar to lust. For a straight person to look at a woman and think “Man that girl is sexy. I would like to…” and then think of something else isn’t lust, it’s dwelling on it that makes it lust. Same thing goes with SSA. The actual thoughts themselves aren’t sinful, it’s the dwelling and fantasizing on them that can make it sinful.
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Ayeaiii
Guest
Oh, urban-hermit,
very interesting post. I see you say you had trouble of your male identity. I have trouble of that also. I am not even so very sure what I mean by that, just gender is very confusing find, and hard to find a fit. I had not mentioned it before, because I am not sure at all the Catholic perspective, or even how really to express what I mena. How does the Lord feel about gender roles, what is an appropriate one for a man?
thank you for sharing how you dealt with this and homosexuality, maybe will be help to me also.
Oh, Also, I try not to have lust! I know that is a sin. But I must confess, my feelings are quite complicated they are more than just sex. a little lust yes, I admit. But also desire to be in a loving relationship with a man, as a woman would. So I try not to be lustful. but still I have problems of other issues.
x
very interesting post. I see you say you had trouble of your male identity. I have trouble of that also. I am not even so very sure what I mean by that, just gender is very confusing find, and hard to find a fit. I had not mentioned it before, because I am not sure at all the Catholic perspective, or even how really to express what I mena. How does the Lord feel about gender roles, what is an appropriate one for a man?
thank you for sharing how you dealt with this and homosexuality, maybe will be help to me also.
Oh, Also, I try not to have lust! I know that is a sin. But I must confess, my feelings are quite complicated they are more than just sex. a little lust yes, I admit. But also desire to be in a loving relationship with a man, as a woman would. So I try not to be lustful. but still I have problems of other issues.
x
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Contarini
Guest
Ayeaiii,
Since ccc who is no longer Catholic has chimed in, I (as a non-Catholic sympathetic to Catholicism) will also add my two cents to contradict what he said.
Desires may be sinful, but they cannot be mortal sins unless you choose to act on them at least in thought. We all have sexual temptations of one sort or another, and I would think that most of us know that there is a line between struggling with a sexual thought and deliberately choosing to indulge in it. Things along that line (for instance, when you have a sexual response and you find it pleasurable and so don’t completely exclude the thought from your mind, but you struggle with it until it goes away) may be venial sins. But as I understand Catholic theology, only a deliberate indulgence in a sexual thought is a mortal sin that must be confessed to a priest.
I will remember you in my prayers.
In Christ,
Edwin
Since ccc who is no longer Catholic has chimed in, I (as a non-Catholic sympathetic to Catholicism) will also add my two cents to contradict what he said.
Desires may be sinful, but they cannot be mortal sins unless you choose to act on them at least in thought. We all have sexual temptations of one sort or another, and I would think that most of us know that there is a line between struggling with a sexual thought and deliberately choosing to indulge in it. Things along that line (for instance, when you have a sexual response and you find it pleasurable and so don’t completely exclude the thought from your mind, but you struggle with it until it goes away) may be venial sins. But as I understand Catholic theology, only a deliberate indulgence in a sexual thought is a mortal sin that must be confessed to a priest.
I will remember you in my prayers.
In Christ,
Edwin
D
Digger71
Guest
Desire is an emotion too.
I think “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But now I tell you: anyone who looks at a woman and wants to possess her is guilty of committing adultery with her in his heart. (Mat 5:27,28,)” makes it pretty clear there is such a thing as a ‘thought crime’.
I assume that we should generalise from this. Thinking of stealing? Then you have stolen, in your heart. Thinking of murder? Then you have murdered.
That’s pretty strict. I can only believe that wanting something is not the same as imagining you got it…though that would be difficult to control.
Maybe sitting down and setting out to imagine you got it, is different to spontaneously imagining it.
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Digger71
Guest
I think this is a highly confused statement, the mind depends on the brain, all aspects of the mind. Inccluding mental health, emotions, sexuality… it is a feedback system, that means socialisation (talking) can fix some things, but a lot cannot be fixed. Thus happy pills.
The argument about emotional dysfunction also hides physical causes. impotence was once considered purely emotional/mental disorder, until drugs were found that solved the problem for a large number of people.
Homosexuality has a lot of evidence for physical grounding…I actually half expect a serotonin like pill could fix it, if people just knew what to block.
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Contarini
Guest
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setter
Guest
Emotional health is mental health. We are made as rational beings. Sexual attraction, psychosexual identity is a function of mind and emotions as contained in our physical temples as enfleshed spirits with an immortal soul. It only serves to confuse further by trying segregate the whole person, just as trying to live a chaste existance involves the whole person as a social being. SSA is a symptom of an underlying psychological disturbance/disorder.
C
cor
Guest
Isn’t desiring something an act of the will? Like if I desire a Playstation for Christmas, wouldn’t that involve the intellect and will? This would be different from merely finding a Playstation appealing or attractive.
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LilyM
Guest
There’s a difference also between serious desire and a fleeting thought of, say, ‘gee, it’d be nice to have a Playstation for Christmas … buuut I can’t afford it’. The second is usually spontaneous, and quickly put to one side - not willed.
If that second thought turned into, say, a definite decision to purchase one (even if unacted on) that shows premeditation and planning, and hence will.
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