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Nordar
Guest
Exactly!
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Contarini
Guest
One point here: of course he should not marry a woman without telling her about his issues, but there is nothing deceptive about getting married if he has at least some desire for women and if the woman understands what she is getting into. For instance, the Episcopal bishop +Gene Robinson did this–he married a woman and told her that he struggled with homosexuality. They seem to have had a good marriage and they certainly had several children–but unfortunately he eventually came to the conclusion that God was calling him to pursue his homosexual identity, and they divorced by mutual consent. This was a theological decision on his part–had he been a more orthodox Christian and not influenced by our culture’s worship “authenticity,” he might have had a perfectly successful and happy marriage for all I can see.
The idea that for a homosexual to marry a woman is intrinsically dishonest (even if he tells her about his struggles with SSA) derives from the idea that we must be “true to ourselves” and that trying to resist deeply entrenched desires is somehow being inauthentic.
At least that’s how I see it. . . .
Edwin
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Unexpected_Dawn
Guest
I just wanted to say that my prayers are with you! I am not dealing with what you are, but I know what it is like to live with a heavy cross, so I thought I might offer some “general” encouragement.
Actually, it sounds to me that you are doing a splendid job of living in a pure and holy manner! It’s not something that comes easily to any of us, especially given our lust-crazed culture. I struggle mightily at times against impurity and against what society tries to tell me. It is the grace of God and the Sacraments of Confession and Eucharist that help me.
Sometimes, I worry that I will never have a loving relationship, I will never get married, I will always be lonely, I will be regarded as a failure or as an unlovable person. A certain measure of worry and uncertainty are only natural. But I have also learned to “grow where I am planted,” and “take it one day at a time.” Sometimes, it’s more like I have to take things one minute or one breath at a time! But I always get through.
Another thing I do is to make God my loving partner in life! I tell Him everything. I tell Him when I feel lonely, anxious, or lacking in hope. He always consoles me! He will be there for you too, always… just invite Him into your life, invite Him to be your partner in life, and He will!
I find gratitude to be the most powerful antidote to worry! Just being grateful for all the good things and blessings I have. It sounds like you too have much to be grateful for: your family, your strong faith, your virtues, and your compassion and service to others… you sound like such a terrific person, a very rare and precious person, rich in things in which so many people in our society are impovrished! If I can see that, you can bet that God does!
God loves you, and wants to guide you to happiness. The journey might be difficult and unpleasant sometimes. But entrust yourself to Him and to His Church, and they will see you through. We who are in the Church love you too, want the best for you, and will keep you in our hearts and minds! I’ll dedicate today’s Mass to you, and offer up a Rosary too, for good measure!
The Risen Lord be with you!
Actually, it sounds to me that you are doing a splendid job of living in a pure and holy manner! It’s not something that comes easily to any of us, especially given our lust-crazed culture. I struggle mightily at times against impurity and against what society tries to tell me. It is the grace of God and the Sacraments of Confession and Eucharist that help me.
Sometimes, I worry that I will never have a loving relationship, I will never get married, I will always be lonely, I will be regarded as a failure or as an unlovable person. A certain measure of worry and uncertainty are only natural. But I have also learned to “grow where I am planted,” and “take it one day at a time.” Sometimes, it’s more like I have to take things one minute or one breath at a time! But I always get through.
Another thing I do is to make God my loving partner in life! I tell Him everything. I tell Him when I feel lonely, anxious, or lacking in hope. He always consoles me! He will be there for you too, always… just invite Him into your life, invite Him to be your partner in life, and He will!
I find gratitude to be the most powerful antidote to worry! Just being grateful for all the good things and blessings I have. It sounds like you too have much to be grateful for: your family, your strong faith, your virtues, and your compassion and service to others… you sound like such a terrific person, a very rare and precious person, rich in things in which so many people in our society are impovrished! If I can see that, you can bet that God does!
God loves you, and wants to guide you to happiness. The journey might be difficult and unpleasant sometimes. But entrust yourself to Him and to His Church, and they will see you through. We who are in the Church love you too, want the best for you, and will keep you in our hearts and minds! I’ll dedicate today’s Mass to you, and offer up a Rosary too, for good measure!
The Risen Lord be with you!
K
Kevin42
Guest
I just want to completely agree that being grateful is one of the best things to be. It keeps a person humble towards the Lord, allows the person to happily praise the Lord, gratitude glorifies God, it allows a person to be emotionally happy, and it keeps us away from despair. Gratitude is a wonderful cure for many problems that anyone might encounter.
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urban-hermit
Guest
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fritz
Guest
Edwin: I believe you were explaining to sixteen year old Ayeaiii the matter of the now Bishop Robinson, how he …“eventually came to the conclusion that God was calling him to persue his homosexual identity… a theological decision…”. Did you really, really believe that or are just reporting on what you read at some point in the past?
My effort to be of some use has been to focus on his youth, his family dynamics and the importance of hope as he worries himself sick about a future that he fears will be dismal. I don’t believe Ayeaiii is anywhere close to all that unless, like the Bishop, he suddenly hears God “calling him”. God forbid! (You know, almost like “the woman gave me to eat” said Adam). Instead, I hope he does take time out to learn about this feared condition, excellently discussed and free and immediately available in my earlier Google reference. Fritz
My effort to be of some use has been to focus on his youth, his family dynamics and the importance of hope as he worries himself sick about a future that he fears will be dismal. I don’t believe Ayeaiii is anywhere close to all that unless, like the Bishop, he suddenly hears God “calling him”. God forbid! (You know, almost like “the woman gave me to eat” said Adam). Instead, I hope he does take time out to learn about this feared condition, excellently discussed and free and immediately available in my earlier Google reference. Fritz
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Contarini
Guest
I agree–that was in fact my point. A large part of homosexuality is the self-identification, which our culture encourages and praises as “honest.”
However, if I did not make my point clear to you, I probably didn’t make it clear to Ayeiii. I apologize for that.
Edwin
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mikeledes
Guest
Marriage is based on much more than a “desire for a woman.” Those struggling with homosexuality have a strong desire for a person of the same sex and generally feel that they have no desire for women (unless they are “bisexual”). If a person is not even attracted to a woman, he should not marry until the issue is resolved.
God Bless,
Michael
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Urf
Guest
The only advice I can give you is to be honest with yourself. What do you think God wants from you? No, not “what do other people tell you God wants,” but what do you think God want’s from you?
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fritz
Guest
Ayeaiii…are you hanging in there? Hope so. Ever get the straight dope from the Catholic Medical Association’s excellent summary focusing on hope, easy to find on Google as I mentioned? If you’ve been too busy, I urge you to make time. You won’t find a better summary concerning your worries anywhere else…and it is free! Fritz
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Grace_Angel
Guest
Hello Ayeiii,
You have received some really good advise and your prayer life is really good and please keep it going. Its important. I also like the work of Conrad Baars and have studied his works.
However, Ayeiii, I would suggest that there is an absence of “male ness” in your life. An absence of the masculine and it is this which you are seeking. It is this need which needs to be met. Further, because of your teen years and an influx of hormones it becomes easy to sexualise your feelings.
I dont know who you are and what your circumstances are, but I would suggest a deep need and longing for “male ness” a sense which can only be received from a father, or strong male relation and which perhaps has not been received. Your need is not for sexual activity, but a much deeper and more fundamental need of identity.
Perhaps you might let me know if on right track.
God Bless
GraceAngel.
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bennierja
Guest
Hey Ayeaiii,
I don’t know whether you still check this thread, but I felt I had to give you a message of hope when I stumbled across it. I’m also a young man (18) struggling with homosexuality but I have found a hope where I never imagined there could be any; the possibility for healing in the area of homosexuality. When I read the previous poster’s statement that homosexuality was an irreversible genetic disorder because only one third succeeds in changing it, I wanted to provide an alternative; maybe the two thirds that didn’t make it just gave up. About a year ago, I found out about a ministry called Exodus International; through it I got involved in a local ministry which helps men and women struggling with homosexuality to walk with Christ. Over the past year, I’ve made deep friendships with men who once had only homosexual attractions but who are now attracted to the wives God recently blessed them with. I wouldn’t doubt it if this sounds unbelievable; I was once as certain as anybody that homosexuality was a genetic fluke. But as this ministry began to reveal to me, men struggling with homosexuality have too many similarities beyond the gene pool to be coincidental. Every situation, and I don’t know yours, is different, but frequently, men who struggle with this have had fathers that were either detached or abusive, or could not relate to their son. The sons as a result also could not relate to their dad, often feeling abandoned or rejected. A lot of times peers of the same sex also rejected the boy. It was facts like these that began to click for me. Ironically, another poster above thought that maybe men struggling with this weren’t attracted to women because they had a bad relationship with their moms, but like you to some extent, I had a great relationship with my mom, certainly better than that with my dad; and so have many men dealing with this. What I’ve come to see is that there are far too many fundamental similarities that I have with other men struggling with homosexuality for it to be coincidental genetics; the cause is psychological and emotional. That is not at all to say it’s a choice; I know I didn’t choose it; but that does mean that it’s an area that God can and wants to heal. I agree entirely with the advice given above to be open in confession and to receive the Eucharist; both are more important to life than anything else. But if you have a broken leg, after you pray everything turns out alright, you take yourself to the doctor. In the same way, you need to address this issue specifically. As I said earlier, one of the best resources to begin this journey is Exodus International. Sadly, from what I’ve heard about Courage, the Catholic ministry similar to Exodus, they come from the standpoint that it’s something you live with, not from a place of offering hope in healing. Although Exodus is a Protestant ministry, as a Roman Catholic I have found the differences to not stop me from receiving the immense graces of healing from Christ through it. If you’re interested in more about Exodus, their website is www.exodus-international.org/. I did, however, find a promising organization located in England under the umbrella of Exodus that might be the greatest help to you, especially in finding Godly counseling that is based on the belief that change is possible: re-alignment.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1.
God bless; I hope God leads you to a new place of healing in your life.
Your brother in Christ,
bennierja
I don’t know whether you still check this thread, but I felt I had to give you a message of hope when I stumbled across it. I’m also a young man (18) struggling with homosexuality but I have found a hope where I never imagined there could be any; the possibility for healing in the area of homosexuality. When I read the previous poster’s statement that homosexuality was an irreversible genetic disorder because only one third succeeds in changing it, I wanted to provide an alternative; maybe the two thirds that didn’t make it just gave up. About a year ago, I found out about a ministry called Exodus International; through it I got involved in a local ministry which helps men and women struggling with homosexuality to walk with Christ. Over the past year, I’ve made deep friendships with men who once had only homosexual attractions but who are now attracted to the wives God recently blessed them with. I wouldn’t doubt it if this sounds unbelievable; I was once as certain as anybody that homosexuality was a genetic fluke. But as this ministry began to reveal to me, men struggling with homosexuality have too many similarities beyond the gene pool to be coincidental. Every situation, and I don’t know yours, is different, but frequently, men who struggle with this have had fathers that were either detached or abusive, or could not relate to their son. The sons as a result also could not relate to their dad, often feeling abandoned or rejected. A lot of times peers of the same sex also rejected the boy. It was facts like these that began to click for me. Ironically, another poster above thought that maybe men struggling with this weren’t attracted to women because they had a bad relationship with their moms, but like you to some extent, I had a great relationship with my mom, certainly better than that with my dad; and so have many men dealing with this. What I’ve come to see is that there are far too many fundamental similarities that I have with other men struggling with homosexuality for it to be coincidental genetics; the cause is psychological and emotional. That is not at all to say it’s a choice; I know I didn’t choose it; but that does mean that it’s an area that God can and wants to heal. I agree entirely with the advice given above to be open in confession and to receive the Eucharist; both are more important to life than anything else. But if you have a broken leg, after you pray everything turns out alright, you take yourself to the doctor. In the same way, you need to address this issue specifically. As I said earlier, one of the best resources to begin this journey is Exodus International. Sadly, from what I’ve heard about Courage, the Catholic ministry similar to Exodus, they come from the standpoint that it’s something you live with, not from a place of offering hope in healing. Although Exodus is a Protestant ministry, as a Roman Catholic I have found the differences to not stop me from receiving the immense graces of healing from Christ through it. If you’re interested in more about Exodus, their website is www.exodus-international.org/. I did, however, find a promising organization located in England under the umbrella of Exodus that might be the greatest help to you, especially in finding Godly counseling that is based on the belief that change is possible: re-alignment.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1.
God bless; I hope God leads you to a new place of healing in your life.
Your brother in Christ,
bennierja
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LittleDeb
Guest
I am coming in late to an older thread so I hope you are still reading. You have received some excellent advice here. This particular post however, deserves some deep consideration. It is at the crux of your struggle.
Gender roles have been addressed by the Church. Our late Holy Father Pope John Paul II gave some amazing talks over many years called, “Theology of the Body.” These teachings changed my entire life.
I did not suffer SSA, but I found that all of our sexual struggles were rooted in the same place. We don’t understand our bodies and our very souls as God himself made us, before the Fall. I don’t know how I can begin to put TOB (Theology of the Body) in a nutshell to show how it applies to your situation, but I shall try.
One of the major things to happen in the fall of man was to drive division between man and woman. We are masculine and feminine first. Male and female are a **result **of masculine and feminine not the other way around like secular society wants us to believe. Masculine means “to give” feminine means, “to receive.” Hence God is masculine yet not male and we are all feminine in our response to to Him, regardless of our sex.
The fall brought into our lives a confusion of authentic masculinity and authentic femininity. What JPII discusses very deeply in TOB is an understanding of how it was in the beginning, before the Fall, how we are originally made perfect. God uses everything that happens to us to bring us to a deeper understanding of Him. He allows sin, but He does not participate in it. All disorders and imperfections are a result of sin. I am talking Original Sin, not personal sin. Cancer, in the world is a result of sin, yet the person with cancer has done nothing sinful.
Spend time studying the environmental and biological factors of SSA if it helps you to understand it better. I think however, that you will find much healing in studying the authentic masculinity and femininity found in TOB. I will warn you that it is really deep. I have been studying it on and off since 1993. I still have only a basic working understanding of it. The complementarity that urban-hermit spoke of is very well addressed. What we encounter with all of these struggles is a neutering of men and women. It is in our complementarity that God made us men and women. Discovering what that really means is amazing!!
Finally, remember that your peers are struggling with their understanding of these same topics. It just manifests differently in them. SSA, promiscuity, contraception, pornography, and of course all forms of lust are rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding and rejection of the Truth written on our very bodies.
God bless you on this path to holiness!
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goofyjim
Guest
And to say that the 2/3s who didn’t make it just gave up is unfair. There is no moral requirement to change one’s orientation, just to avoid the behavior.
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adventistnomore
Guest
I don’t know if anyone has already stated all the points I will make:
Yeah, you’re not supposed to be “solving” our homosexuality–just avoiding every expression of it.
I’m heterosexual, but think about it: I can’t express myself sexually with any girl, to any degree, because I’m unmarried. I can’t even express myself sexually when I’m alone, since lust and masturbation are mortal sins; my heart, affected by original sin, has a disordered inclination to these. My life right now is one of great discipline and restraint. Of course, I could still kiss a girl.
But one day, if I get married, I’ll be constantly tempted to have a romantic or sexual relationship with the many attractive girls I will meet besides my wife (who will not always be able to provide for my desires). I will want to flirt with them, kiss them, become intimate with them, but I must absolutely avoid these temptations at work, my neighborhood, etc. (At work, I may even learn I spend more meaningful time with them, than with my own wife.) The married life is one of great discipline and restraint. Even with my wife, I will not be sexually active at will (since Catholics don’t use birth control), and there will be days when either of us are too tired to feel romantic. So let’s face it: marriage isn’t a perfect solution to my sexual/romantic desires; I will still have to restrain myself many days of the year.
Celibacy is only one step higher, in that you have no wife. Now, you not only face a world of temptations (beautiful, attractive women), but you have no single person through which to express those many passion God has placed within you. It my seem incredible, but in reality, it’s just one girl less. It’s like being a single again, without kissing/romance I suppose.
My life is tending towards celibacy, but in every lot in life, I will be called upon to deny myself. So will those with stronger homosexual tendencies; they must deny themselves. But realize, even heterosexual Catholics endure great discipline in the romantic/sexual arena, depending on their lot in life. We all have crosses to bear–very heavy crosses.
**This is why NONE of us–single,married, or celibate–can live pure lives without Christ. **We will all desperately fail, if we think for a moment that we can do this of our own strength.
Yeah, you’re not supposed to be “solving” our homosexuality–just avoiding every expression of it.
I’m heterosexual, but think about it: I can’t express myself sexually with any girl, to any degree, because I’m unmarried. I can’t even express myself sexually when I’m alone, since lust and masturbation are mortal sins; my heart, affected by original sin, has a disordered inclination to these. My life right now is one of great discipline and restraint. Of course, I could still kiss a girl.
But one day, if I get married, I’ll be constantly tempted to have a romantic or sexual relationship with the many attractive girls I will meet besides my wife (who will not always be able to provide for my desires). I will want to flirt with them, kiss them, become intimate with them, but I must absolutely avoid these temptations at work, my neighborhood, etc. (At work, I may even learn I spend more meaningful time with them, than with my own wife.) The married life is one of great discipline and restraint. Even with my wife, I will not be sexually active at will (since Catholics don’t use birth control), and there will be days when either of us are too tired to feel romantic. So let’s face it: marriage isn’t a perfect solution to my sexual/romantic desires; I will still have to restrain myself many days of the year.
Celibacy is only one step higher, in that you have no wife. Now, you not only face a world of temptations (beautiful, attractive women), but you have no single person through which to express those many passion God has placed within you. It my seem incredible, but in reality, it’s just one girl less. It’s like being a single again, without kissing/romance I suppose.
My life is tending towards celibacy, but in every lot in life, I will be called upon to deny myself. So will those with stronger homosexual tendencies; they must deny themselves. But realize, even heterosexual Catholics endure great discipline in the romantic/sexual arena, depending on their lot in life. We all have crosses to bear–very heavy crosses.
**This is why NONE of us–single,married, or celibate–can live pure lives without Christ. **We will all desperately fail, if we think for a moment that we can do this of our own strength.
T
TheGoodLife
Guest
To the OP: One thing that I suggest doing to not to jump into marriage with a woman. And when you are ready to date women, please be upfront about your internal feelings. A neighbor of mine went through divorce because her husband decided he couldn’t keep up the ‘straight’ lifestyle. This was after 12 years of marriage and two children. Needless to say, the wife and the kids were devastated. The husband does seem happier, though.
A
archangel63
Guest
Exactly. Some people do feel the need to change though.
I guess whatever floats your boat. As long as you’re not living in sin, you’re okay in God’s eyes.
A
archangel63
Guest
I would suffice to say (and I don’t know him at all) that his current happiness is false and will be short-term. “False happiness” is a big part of being actively gay.
There is a season with sin…
R
Riley259
Guest
Your testimony shows that it is possible to find healing from the woundedness of homosexuality. Keep encouraging others - I wish the secular media would take testimony’s like yours seriously.
A
archangel63
Guest
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