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Joseph_Michael
Guest
Hold on. You said you were bi-sexual and then say “living proof a GAY person can live a straight life”. That is a contradiction. I’m very glad for you, but let’s be honest here.
Joseph
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Joseph
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
I am gay and i have a partner, but we don’t engage in sexuality. We don’t even sleep in the same room. We have been together 28+ years. We met when i wasn’t living a Christian life and yes, we did have sexual relations at first. It slowed down over the years and then stopped altogether. I am thankful for that. It made it much easier to come back to God and His Church.
I know what you are feeling, but on what “authority” do you or other Christians base this belief?
Joseph
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jblair
Guest
Responses to this thread has provided a few resources regarding same-sex attractions. Let me suggest three additional ones that are prominent. The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality is self-explanatory and can be found at narth.com/ Dr. Warren Throckmorton is a leading psychologist, who is frequently at odds with the American Psychological Association, regarding SSA research and therapy. One of his websites is drthrockmorton.com/ Dr. Patrick Carnes is a pioneer in the field of sex addiction: his website is sexhelp.com/about.cfm
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dapper
Guest
I agree with you toally. There is merit in suffering for a cause - suffering for love, sacrificing for love etc. I have had to do that many times for my boyfriend and he has done that many more times for me. It makes me almost cry to think how many times my boyfriend has sacrificed his comfort and needs for my own. My well being is always first and foremost on his mind and it shows in his actions and words. However, *being a homosexual * is nothing to suffer over! That is one of my main points. Instead of looking at homosexuality as a cross needing to be suffered through, or a disease or disorder that needs to be cured or “straghtened out,” (which IMO is next to impossible) one should first realize what they are and secondly, make strides to accept it. I only ask that folks struggling with this look at it that way as well. For Catholics, if the end result means following the guidelines of your church and not *acting on *your homsexuality, thats fine too. Just be yourself.
Look at the other poster, Joseph Michael. He has been with his partner for 28 years. They live together but do not engage in sex. I am sure that they live a very happy life and love eachother very much. My point being that acceptance of your homosexuality and loving another of the same sex is possible!
Ever since I accepted my homosexuality and realized that I was not going to be able to change it, I have seen an exponential growth in my happiness, overall outlook on life, and sanity. Being true to myself and not beign caught up in a lies or being embarassed of my sexuality has had nothing but positive results personally, mentally, emotionally and spiritually.
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goofyjim
Guest
Again all of which treat SSA as something that can be changed. It can be controlled not changed. I just choose not to go backward in time and start making the kid who feels different get depressed. I would advise him that he can live w/o sex but does not have to deny attractions. There is nothing to “suffer” from. I rejoice in having same sex attraction.
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dapper
Guest
Great post again Jim. I too rejoice in this part of who I am! I completely understand someone wanting to change it (as it is usually not the path of least resistance) but in the event they cannot, maybe one should try and accept it.
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
dapper,
I’ll ask again; on what “authority” do you or other Christians base this belief?
Joseph
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urban-hermit
Guest
I don’t think it is a contradiction. There are many gay men and women who “identify as gay”, even though they admit to some attraction to the opposite sex as well. It’s not a binary on-off switch. Also, it can change over time and in different circumstances.
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dapper
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If you’re talking about the Catholic church, identifying yourself as gay, accepting that you are gay and living publicly as a gay person without engaing in sex with someone of the same sex is is perfectly within the bounds of the Catholic Church.
I’ve also been apart of other Christian churches that have no problem with this either. There are some Christian churches that condone sex between two people of the same sex as well as so long as the commit in a ceremony within that church.
Does that answer your question?
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urban-hermit
Guest
It seems to me that everyone here is being courageously honest.
So as to your claim above, that to equate homosexuality with some kind of disease or aberration is just nonsense, I must disagree.
Objectively, we must admit that those of us with SSA are sexually disadvantaged. This is a simple statement of fact, not a belief or opinion. Nor is it a value judgment on the person.
We are all entitled to our own opinions - but not our own facts.
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dapper
Guest
In terms of authority, and if you’re talking about the Catholic church, identifying yourself as gay, accepting that you are gay and living publicly as a gay person without engaing in sex with someone of the same sex is is perfectly within the bounds of religion. From what I understand.
I’ve also been apart of other Christian churches that have no problem with this either.
My main point here is acceptance of self. There are some that find the idea of this acceptance not in line with God’s plan. There are some that would suggest a gay person go to NARTH, and or some kind of reversal therapy…I disagree.
When you ask, where I draw the line in authority, I have yet to see anything in the bible in which states accpetance and peace of one’s homosexuality is wrong - but I sure sense and have heard on this and previous posts that it is. That said, you might want to redirect your questiosn to some other posters as you may find yourself being “tisk-tisked” later for even living in the same house as your partner.
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urban-hermit
Guest
It’s hard to refute the assertion that homosexuality is an inferior state of being than heterosexuality.
The teaching of the Catholic Church is that the best way to be at peace with same-sex attractions is to learn to live without indulging them. I would never have believed this to be true growing up, and after 15 years in a gay lifestyle I still thought the Church’s teaching was unfair and unnecessary … but for some mysterious reason I decided to try it anyway, and now I am another one of those who have found it to be true.
I am sure you do love your partner. Many many homosexual couples come to the realization that continuing to love one another evolves into a non-sexually active relationship.
I don’t condemn you, and I don’t think even the Church does. What we would simply say to you is that same-sex sexual activity is a dead end. Many people find this out through trial-and-error. Others take it on faith.
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goofyjim
Guest
I could have sex and love with a woman at the drop of a hat. But I would still find a few male bodies beautiful and get turned on by them. As long as I don’t act on that I see no disadvantage. I don’t need to go rushing off to no shrink over SSA.
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dapper
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Thanks Urban. I really was just pointing out more so that one can live within Christianity and/or be Catholic and still be a homosexual.
I am not Catholic and I have to disagree with you on a couple points- namely that homosexuality is distorted/disordered or lesser state of sexuality and secondly, that my having sex with someone of the same gender is a dead end. Let’s just agree to disagree on those!
Would you agree that one can at the very least come to accept their sexuality and live happily with another of the same sex as a partner in love without having sex (for all you Catholics out there)? If this is something that the Catholic Church approves, I think that it should be offered as an alternative to NARTH or reversal therapy.
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blessedtoo
Guest
You seem to be under the impression that the CC demands reversal therapy or some type of “reversion” treatment. She does not. If a homosexual Catholic who is striving for chastity wishes to undergo such therapies, the CC will encourage them, of course. But it is not expected or demanded. The Church simply teaches that all people must adhere to chastity or celibacy according to their station in life. I, as a woman who is separated from my husband for many, many years, must remain chaste/celibate. An unmarried person maintains the same level of chastity. A married person practices monogamy and chastity within the marriage. A homosexual practices chastity and celibacy. We are all called to the same holiness.
The Church would not encourage someone with SSA to “live happily with another of the same sex as a partner in love without having sex” because it would certainly provide overwhelming temptation for the two involved. In addition, I should think that someone struggling to maintain chastity would not be able to live “happily” in such an arrangement, as it would present a constant source of frustration to be put in such a situation without eventually falling into the sin of acting on the impulse to engage in homosexual behavior.
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dapper
Guest
I think that I should have said this sooner – I am not a Catholic (can you believe it? 
), but think that there are ways for Catholics to live and accept their homosexuality and even be in a non-sexual relationship with another of the same gender & sexuality without stepping out of the line of Catholic dogma (having sex with them).
It seems as though some posters do agree with that and are actively doing and practicng this. Joseph Michael lives with his partner of 28 years and it seems that **Urban Hermit **may be doing or has done the same. From what I have interpreted, they are (A) gay, (B) not trying to change it or deny it through therapy or NARTH and (C) have a partner that they live with who is both A and B. They are also not having sex with their partner.
I think there were some assumptions made about me though…let me clear them up — What cannot be refuted is that I love my partner and sex for us is an expression of that love. Well, I guess one could attemot to refute it but I am not going to argue about it as it sways from my intent of my posts. Furthermore, I understand that the Catholic church does not agree with my posturing but that is your belief, not mine. I understand that Catholics believe that their church is the one true church and it’s dogma is truth to the letter. I do not. I am only attempting to make a point for the OP and at the same time, give him some advice within his intentions, as I understand them - staying true to his religion and at the same time beign a homosexual. I was not saying that he should start having sex with men. Though that would be fine by me however I am attempting to offer an alternative within his boundries. At the same time, I am attempting to have other Catholics here understand that this suggestion is within the dogma of the church.
If I have misinterpreted any beliefs or Catholic church doctrine, please let me know but again, from what I understand, being and admitting to yourself that you are gay, having a relationship with a partner who is and admits that they are gay and living with that partner is perfectly fine within the catholic church. NARTH and therapy are too (and are not demanded by the church), but from what I understand, the above is an alternative. If it is, then it should be offered as well.
), but think that there are ways for Catholics to live and accept their homosexuality and even be in a non-sexual relationship with another of the same gender & sexuality without stepping out of the line of Catholic dogma (having sex with them).It seems as though some posters do agree with that and are actively doing and practicng this. Joseph Michael lives with his partner of 28 years and it seems that **Urban Hermit **may be doing or has done the same. From what I have interpreted, they are (A) gay, (B) not trying to change it or deny it through therapy or NARTH and (C) have a partner that they live with who is both A and B. They are also not having sex with their partner.
I think there were some assumptions made about me though…let me clear them up — What cannot be refuted is that I love my partner and sex for us is an expression of that love. Well, I guess one could attemot to refute it but I am not going to argue about it as it sways from my intent of my posts. Furthermore, I understand that the Catholic church does not agree with my posturing but that is your belief, not mine. I understand that Catholics believe that their church is the one true church and it’s dogma is truth to the letter. I do not. I am only attempting to make a point for the OP and at the same time, give him some advice within his intentions, as I understand them - staying true to his religion and at the same time beign a homosexual. I was not saying that he should start having sex with men. Though that would be fine by me however I am attempting to offer an alternative within his boundries. At the same time, I am attempting to have other Catholics here understand that this suggestion is within the dogma of the church.
If I have misinterpreted any beliefs or Catholic church doctrine, please let me know but again, from what I understand, being and admitting to yourself that you are gay, having a relationship with a partner who is and admits that they are gay and living with that partner is perfectly fine within the catholic church. NARTH and therapy are too (and are not demanded by the church), but from what I understand, the above is an alternative. If it is, then it should be offered as well.
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dapper
Guest
The church would not encourage it but does not posture itself or state that one “musn’t live with another of the same sex if you are both homosexual…” right?
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dapper
Guest
I forgot to add at the end here that within that relationship, the couple cannot have sex - must live celibately.If I have misinterpreted any beliefs or Catholic church doctrine, please let me know but again, from what I understand, being and admitting to yourself that you are gay, having a relationship with a partner who is and admits that they are gay and living with that partner is perfectly fine within the catholic church. NARTH and therapy are too (and are not demanded by the church), but from what I understand, the above is an alternative. If it is, then it should be offered as well.
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Joseph_Michael
Guest
blessedtoo,
I think we have a rather interesting situation. We are no longer attracted to each other. There is no way we are going to fall into sexual sin with each other anyway. I fall in the city park with strange men; but i have been staying out of the park since i came back to the Church. That doesn’t mean i don’t love my partner and care for him. I pray for him all the time.
I heard Jason Evert
catholic.com/seminars/evert.asp say on his program on chastity (on EWTN) that it would be fine if two people of the same sex live out their chastity with each other.
If one was attracted to a partner and visa versa, it would be a dangerous situation for them indeed.
Love in Christ,
Joseph
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blessedtoo
Guest
dapper,
I’ve been searching for some definitive Church statement on the issue of whether 2 chaste homosexuals can live together as partners. Judging by the total lack of comment on such an arrangement, I think it’s safe to assume that such a scenario is pretty rare and may be impossible to maintain.
From the USCCB statement on Pastoral Care to Persons with SSA, it is stated that
usccb.org/comm/archives/2007/07-051.shtml
I would guess that Courage and Narth would be able to answer this question more thoroughly but the websites do not offer any statements addressing this issue directly. There are probably books available that would give a well developed answer, but I suspect it would be in the same vein as what I have already stated.
I’ve been searching for some definitive Church statement on the issue of whether 2 chaste homosexuals can live together as partners. Judging by the total lack of comment on such an arrangement, I think it’s safe to assume that such a scenario is pretty rare and may be impossible to maintain.
From the USCCB statement on Pastoral Care to Persons with SSA, it is stated that
usccb.org/comm/archives/2007/07-051.shtml
You propose that it is acceptable for a homosexual “couple” to live together in a loving relationship without engaging in homosexual acts. I think that if you are honest, you will admit that this would be excruciatingly difficult, if not impossible. It would be no different than two heterosexual people who are in love living together while attempting to remain chaste. It would be a constant near occasion of sin and I am certain the Church would advise against it. It would also cause a certain amount of scandal to the community at large as it would project an appearance of impropriety.
I would guess that Courage and Narth would be able to answer this question more thoroughly but the websites do not offer any statements addressing this issue directly. There are probably books available that would give a well developed answer, but I suspect it would be in the same vein as what I have already stated.
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