6 things that the atheists gain by lacking the faith in God

[Vera_Ljuba]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

 

[Vico]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

1 - on some supposedly meaningless rituals
2 - but perhaps not without sin
3 - but perhaps if it is true
4 - but Christians do not believe in magical intervention either
5 - maybe, but some atheists have beliefs
6 - something Christians must do also for charity is necessary for reward later

 

[MaryT777]

I have none to add because I see the atheist I know as struggling with the "meaning of life: and I’m not atheist.

 

[pianistclare]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.

**They’re not meaningless. **
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
Love is limitless
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
**Easy to avoid hell. **
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
Prayers aren’t magic
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
**The discrepancies are only in the minds of non-believers. **
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
**This is profound lack of understanding of our purpose here in this life. **
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

You just like to argue. Aren’t there atheist forums?
Mocking faith for sport.
Niiiiiiice.

 

[Samwise21]

Looks like some pretty weak bait to me.

But I’ll stick around anyway for the show.

 

[Rhubarb]

Don’t stoop to this level… We’re guests here.

 

[dallas_r]

Atheists gain nothing from not believing in God. Atheism is selfish as you do not give thanks to the one who created you. Good job at trying to mock the faith, we do have an atheist/forum for other religions where you may discuss this with others…

 

[Bradski]

Don’t stoop to this level… We’re guests here.

Seconded.

 

[Tim_D]

Oh, yet another thread where atheists show how they are so much smarter than people of faith…yawn.

 

[z_0101]

Belief is a wise wager.
**Granted that faith cannot be proved, **
what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false?
If you gain,
you gain all;
if you lose, you lose nothing. .
Wager,
then,
without hesitation,
that He exists.

– Blaise Pascal​

Yes, I know that there have been rebuttals to this; however, IMHO, they all fall very short in the actual success of the attempted refutation in that they either fail to show actual understanding of Mr. Pascal’s position, outright ignore the position, and/or attempt to impose constraints to support their position.

 

[meltzerboy]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

(1) Life is composed of all kinds of rituals: both religious and non-religious. External, behavioral rituals are a means of validating internal thoughts, emotions, and drives, and thus serve an important human function.
(2) There is no real freedom in matters of sexuality or anything else without the Law. Just as excessive restrictions limit the mind, body, and spirit, so do boundless choices.
(3) This is not a preoccupation in Judaism.
(4) Prayer takes many other forms in addition to praying for personal welfare and the welfare of others, for example, prayer for thanksgiving. It strengthens mind, body, and spirit, is not thought to be something magical, brings people together physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and often has tangible positive effects on physical and mental health.
(5) Any belief system has certain discrepancies; however, one of our tasks is to understand that certain discrepancies are based on our own lack of complete knowledge. When we study and learn more, however, we often find that what we thought were discrepancies at first are really different levels or layers of understanding which complement one another like parts of a jigsaw puzzle. Belief systems are not generally designed to be simple and ready-made. Further, mental gymnastics are beneficial to exercising our mind and reason.
(6) Judaism does focus on solving the problems in the world in the here and now. We must learn the virtue of helping others and ourselves without expectation of reward in the present or hereafter, for virtue in the form of doing G-d’s will is its own reward.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Holy cows! This was not meant to be a hostile provocation. Why do you behave as if you were attacked? There is a thread about what atheists supposedly gave up by not believing. It seems to be reasonable to present the view of the other side. Audiatur et altera pars is usually an accepted custom. Sheesh!

 

[Rhubarb]

Mostly because people dismiss our arguments and down-treat us simply due to what’s listed in our “religion” box enough as it is. Let’s save some argumentative capital for something more.

 

[joeybaggz]

Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

They live in a blissful certainty that there is nothing beyond the cold, dead, rotting stench of a compost heap. There are no great questions or mysteries in life.

They don’t have to concern themselves with the concept of any fundamental meaning of life because there is nothing beyond the present moment.

They don’t have to endure the agonizing uncertainty of having a hope dashed because there is nothing to hope for.

They don’t have to concern themselves with the plight of the poor of the world because the poor have no value to anyone but themselves

A few of the “benefits” of being an atheist. At least the way I understand atheism.

Shalom

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I love that you did this! I think those are some great starts and I’m sorry I’ve got nothing to add because I’m not an atheist to know what things are gain or not… but as I was reading these points, I wondered, are these really gain?

For instance…

For number 1) What makes a ritual meaningless? Means without fruit, without merit coming to it. I put in my time as a very devoted believer. I did not live in a monastery but I lived as if I were in one for about three years so that I could get a good feel of it, if it was the right choice for me. I already loved God and I already was very motivated in serving God. It had meaning to me, and the one thing I noticed was exactly HOW beneficial these rituals were! Honestly, I got more things done in a day than in those days that I did not. I am not making that up. It always baffled me because I spent about 5 hours a day praying. I got all my chores done, despite crippling illness. And on top of that I achieved a state of peace of mind that was very much unlike that which I had even in those days when i was secular living a ‘normal’ life. I question the first point because it seems to imply all rituals are pointless… and that’s unfair and untrue. Even secular people have rituals, even if they don’t see them as such. A ritual can certainly be pointless and meaningless if its not something that helps one.

For number 2.) I love this point! Oh gosh do I! So, let me guess, being ‘free’ to have sex with anyone at anytime, anywhere, any type method is supposed to be a gain? This is like saying spending money on anyone, anytime and anywhere on anything is always a gain… Emotionally that sounds great, even fun! But logically this is at worst, insane and at best dangerous. I was researching some new age phenomenon on You Tube and I was reading the comments. In such was some bloke’s demeaning those who don’t freely offer sex because of religious reasons. I was so happy to see someone answer him that they hope he loves his STD’s and unplanned children who will most surely suck him dry of time and money- and if not that, jail time for lack of support. This is just such a modern day fallacy that ‘free sex’ and ‘hot sex’ is going to be worth it. With the amount of nasty STDs going around, you’d think people would think about this, but they don’t. It seems to get forgotten because that person they are looking at looks too good to have one. They don’t look diseased! And besides there are condoms and ‘the pill’ for all that nasty stuff to cover you… Not really. There are some diseases that condoms will not thwart. And there are many women I know that got pregnant even when on the pill. (And besides what male should actually believe the woman saying she is contraception when there have been women who lied in order to get either $$ for babies or to make a man marry her.) The list goes on, this doesn’t even touch the tip of all the problems that come with ‘free sex’. I don’t doubt the lure of it, but its never worth the pleasure to find yourself in trouble later. It only takes one time to commit your life to some really unpleasant and hard facts of life. That’s HARDLY a gain!!! Being with the one God wants you to be with and knowing that person thought of you all the years you waited is superior gain.

On number 3) Sticking your head in the sand about any upcoming event is not wise, nor real pleasure. Again, its just for the moment. It doesn’t matter if there is heaven or if there is nothing- but death is something guaranteed to all of us. Its smarter to think there is something to it other than just ‘the end’ and then nothingness. Being prepared and having all your t’s crossed and i’s dotted is a much better way to go rather than freeballing it. There is no loss when you actually live your life according to God’s ways- in fact, it seems like loss but it is great gain. Its only not gain when you are feigning it to appease your churchy friends.

On number 4.) Again, unfair assessment of believers. No believer says, " if I pray for this I am going to get it." We are taught not to expect what we want but what God decides. THIS is the correct way to pray and hope. There is no false hope involved. AND it prepares a person, again, rather than having no ‘magical’ hope which can lead to depression and apathy about one’s future. Psychology will even attest to this! So is this atheist saying that all hope is ‘magical thinking’? Because I’m pretty sure that atheists hope for things too. Its not magical, its just human nature to do so. Sometimes people win, sometimes people don’t get it.

continued…

 

[AnneElizabeth]

continuing from last post…

On number 5.) Atheists do this too. Its not like they know all either. Every single person believer or not does this. This is hypocritical to say. Its also kind of arrogant to say about another. There are arrogant and hypocrits in every belief system.

On number 6.) sigh deep breath Maybe whoever wrote this has not realized that after soooooo many years of generations after generations of people and of people using their brains to solve things that things are still very vastly out of our reach of TRUE understanding. I don’t say that as a believer, but as someone born into a scientific/teacher family… if you read history, every era has its notions that it held as absolute truth and that they trusted in it fully to be the truth, but every single era’s ‘truth’ in some way or fashion, with time, has been proven false or that it was incomplete leading to false conclusions. Every Single One. The one we live in now is no different, only that we are living in a very beneficial age where people don’t have to worry about making their own food, are robust and healthy and have the time to research while sharing information with many hundreds of thousands of other researchers. However… There is a certain futility towards placing all your hope in solving all the problems to have a great life, and something one usually only finds in the very young. (Ah youth and their hopes) . Its just not going to happen, and even if it was, you still face death. (Even if they found some way to stop death biologically, you still could be smashed by a truck or have all of your body ripped to pieces by an explosion… no biology pills or science is going to be able to put your brain back together when its been pulverized or scattered. ) Again, there is this notion that the believer is focused on reward in the afterlife and living for it. The real believer is focused on God because He sees God and loves God and sees how great and rewarding following His Word is. He does what he is called to do out of love. Anything else Holy Scripture says is without prevail. Its just cymbals clanging… which is probably what spurred this atheist to write these points on their gain. He’s not too far incorrect then. Its not a real gain when someone does not love, and just acts. Even God says He hates this… lukewarm- says he’d vomit them out of His mouth. That’s pretty strong visual there.

What is love? To quote Howard Jones in his hit song… does anyone really love anybody anyway?

Is it gain when a thief gets away with their crime?
Proverbs 9:18 The Way of Folly
…17"Stolen water is sweet; And bread eaten in secret is pleasant." 18But he does not know that the dead are there, That her guests are in the depths of Sheol.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Don’t stoop to this level… We’re guests here.

Agreed. This is a forum, where people are free to discuss (hopefully). Its not a catholic members only club, but we must obey the rules as we don’t fund and run the site.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Oh, yet another thread where atheists show how they are so much smarter than people of faith…yawn.

Let us answer anyway. Why would someone take the time to post this, and why would they ‘poke’ if there wasn’t some psychological need behind it?

Jesus commands us:
Feed the hungry… even if they are cranky, which they usually are. Help the sick, even if its unbearable to be around them. Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not mock.

(OP not saying you are cranky or hungry or sick)

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Holy cows! This was not meant to be a hostile provocation. Why do you behave as if you were attacked? There is a thread about what atheists supposedly gave up by not believing. It seems to be reasonable to present the view of the other side. Audiatur et altera pars is usually an accepted custom. Sheesh!

Well, this is kind of why its better to be a believing Christian… Hope you don’t feel attacked when i say that, but you did basically pin some very unkind notions onto people who believe in those points (I somewhat mentioned those things in my previous post).

Not all believers are strong enough to not to lash out when they feel offended. You may not have meant to offend, but this is another great gain of faith is learning more about others than being focused on self so to promote actual peace and love. Atheism teaches nothing to promote this way of life, but I’m certain one can find very kind and thoughtful atheists. Hope this doesn’t offend you!

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Whilst I think you can’t be quite 100% certain about no. 3, I honestly believe it’s rather a good list! And Joeybaggz and most of the others have added some interesting and informative things too!

Nobody will be in the slightest convinced by the “apologetics” model.

Only by what the Holy Spirit helps people do that can’t be done.

Only by love that has got nothing to do with divorce or remarriage or the sacrament of communion. (That by the way is an “allusion”.)

A lot of the information offered on this forum is intended to help those who already believe, hence they can “translate” it to make it make sense to themselves, when it won’t to an outsider.