6 things that the atheists gain by lacking the faith in God

[Tim_D]

Let us answer anyway. Why would someone take the time to post this, and why would they ‘poke’ if there wasn’t some psychological need behind it?

As I said, because atheist tend to think that they are smarter, more rational, than people of religious faith. I only need direct you to Bill Mahr, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Lawrence Krauss etc. as evidence. Richard Dawkins said to the audience, in a “debate” with the Archbishop of Canterbury, that “we’re intellectuals; we know it isn’t true,” as if people of faith lack fundamental intellectual knowledge and understanding. The ironic thing about it is that Dawkins didn’t even comprehend much of what the Archbishop was saying and the moderator, a little old professor of philosophy, had to take the time to explain the Archbishop’s point to Dawkins.

It has been my experience that those who are not necessarily atheists but certainly anti-religion, have very little understanding of what they criticize. Bill Mahr, who always gets the last word in, always ends with "if you believe the Bible, then you believe in talking snakes." So much for the “intellectuals.”

 

[Reepicheep]

Holy cows! This was not meant to be a hostile provocation. Why do you behave as if you were attacked? There is a thread about what atheists supposedly gave up by not believing. It seems to be reasonable to present the view of the other side. Audiatur et altera pars is usually an accepted custom. Sheesh!

I don’t see anybody being hostile to you. They list and reply to your points. Is that not what you wanted?

 

[IWantGod]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

You should have only stated 1.

1: The autonomy to exist as i please without doing things that are normally associated with religion. lol

 

[IWantGod]

As I said, because atheist tend to think that they are smarter, more rational, than people of religious faith. ."

The fact that some people would prefer to have an act of existing that is ultimately meaningless and pointless suggests to me that they don’t really comprehend the situation that they are in or they don’t care. I dare say that some atheists find themselves in the world, they see the potential for pleasure (whatever form it takes for therm personally) and they would prefer God not to exist telling them how to behave.

 

[Bradski]

It’s not fair, is it. You have to play by the rules and we don’t. Now if you’ll excuse me, my drug dealer is at the door.

 

[Lion_IRC]

This is the reverse of the thread “3 things that atheists give up…”

Let’s see:1) They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.
2) They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
3) They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.
4) The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.
5) They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.
6) They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.
Of course these are just a few off the top of my head. Add to the list at your leisure.

WOW - that’s a pretty tempting list.
Being able to live like there’s no tomorrow.

 

[upant]

1. They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.

depends on how you define a waste of time. it is different for different people. is a religious ritual where peace and joy obtained any different than meditation, etc that delivers the same result?

1. They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.

too simplistic of a statement and depends on what types of love you refer to. many people are fine with the standard relationship and religion doesn’t come into play at all.

1. They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.

this sounds like a personal review of one’s life. if you are religious and follow the rules you are not afraid of death and the life after because you have a house built for you in heaven.

1. The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers.

they just have other rituals for seeking good luck. rub a rabbits foot lately?

1. They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system.

but they do. this is a 2 sided question. you either believe in God or not and have reasons for it.

1. They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.

but why? how do atheists define what a problem is? the murderer is just as right as the animal rights supporter. if there is no god then there is no standard. now there can be man made laws but they can and do change over time. or do they? we abhor the child sacrifice of the ancients but kill more babies in the womb yearly. if there is no God we are all gods.

 

[IWantGod]

It’s not fair, is it. You have to play by the rules and we don’t. Now if you’ll excuse me, my drug dealer is at the door.

As opposed to human-beings actually having a true moral value, having an ontological purpose and meaning,? Real dignity. That compared to the idea that we are going to cease to exist and life never having any point at all other than what humans fantasize in their egotistical heads…

You’re welcome to it mate.

 

[tony12356]

Holy cows! This was not meant to be a hostile provocation. Why do you behave as if you were attacked? There is a thread about what atheists supposedly gave up by not believing. It seems to be reasonable to present the view of the other side. Audiatur et altera pars is usually an accepted custom. Sheesh!

I agree. It is one thing to give a counter argument, but I am surprised by the number of people who are taking this personally.

 

[tony12356]

As opposed to human-beings actually having a true moral value, having an ontological purpose and meaning,? Real dignity. That compared to the idea that we are going to cease to exist and life never having any point at all other than what humans fantasize in their egotistical heads…

You’re welcome to it mate.

Well, you haven’t demonstrated that a “true moral value” can only exist with a god. Also, I find it interesting that people believe a god needs to exist in order for life to have meaning.

 

[IWantGod]

Well, you haven’t demonstrated that a “true morel” can only exist with a god. Also, I find it interesting that people believe a god needs to exist in order for life to have meaning.

Its simple. If only physical processes exist, then only physical processes exist. In other words only the quantifiable exists. Concepts such as “that is immoral” or “you ought to only do things that are good” are purely subjective and constitute the relative ideals of particular individuals or groups. These concepts do not constitute objective physical reality. Good does not exist physically. The same is true with meaning.

Now we can certainly imagine that your life has meaning or you can indulge in the illusion of meaning. That’s up to you.

 

[PennyinCanada]

1)* They do not waste time on meaningless rituals.* pppffffttt! Have you never watched a baseball game?? lol Believers and unbelievers alike seem to love their rituals.

1. They are not limited to express their “eros” type of love to the prescribed methods.
   No they aren’t. This is why we have so many single parent families where the woman was abandoned to take care of her baby and why taxpayers have to pay for abortions. Free sex is never free. Family life where a man must come before family and friends to marry a woman is good for women and good for the children that come of their union. And you know, it’s very good for men too.

3)* They avoid the scary prospect of being tortured for eternity and the mental anguish coming from it.* I don’t have any mental anguish. I’m too busy enjoying the company of God who is my awesome father.

1. The do not develop false hope of magical intervention for their prayers. Nothing magical. Just enjoying an awesome father who loves me to the moon and back. I would never want to go back to my unbelieving days.
2. They do not need to resort to mental gymnastics to explain away the zillions of discrepancies in their belief system. No mental gymnastics on my part. Makes perfect sense.

6)* They can concentrate on the problems of this, temporal existence and attempt to solve its problems instead of hoping a “reward” in the hereafter.*
Really? If anything, I find unbelievers preoccupied with themselves and very uninterested in other’s problems.
My parents both had cancer and passed away. I have one sibling who lived within blocks of them and he spent their last years busy, but not with them. No kids either, just every weekend went fishing, went golfing, went out of town for some shopping, rented a cabin at a lake. Endless activities. It was me who asked my parents, what do you need? I went to* lots* of doctor appointments (sibling didn’t go to one), cooked food, cleaned their house, and on and on. Actually they didn’t hear from him for months at a time. I’m glad you brought this up. Did you know it was the Catholic church that fed the hungry, clothed the naked, took care of the sick, visited those imprisoned? Schools were built, hospitals were built, because of Catholics and their faith. We enjoy a lot of awesome privileges because of those who went before us and built up what we see today. Actually, that’s what atheists gain! The benefits of what Christianity has built in the centuries before!

 

[tony12356]

Its simple. If only physical processes exist, then only physical processes exist. In other words only the quantifiable exists. Concepts such as “that is immoral” or “you ought to only do things that are good” are purely subjective and constitute the relative ideals of particular individuals or groups. These concepts do not constitute objective physical reality. Good does not exist physically. The same is true with meaning.

Now we can certainly imagine that your life has meaning or you can indulge in the illusion of meaning. That’s up to you.

Ok and how does god solve this “problem” ?

 

[IWantGod]

Ok and how does god solve this “problem” ?

You know what…i’m sure there are plenty of books out that can explain it better than me if you ever care enough to read them. Oh wait a minute…you don’t have freewill so you can’t and neither do i, so don’t ask.

 

[tony12356]

You know what…i’m sure there are plenty of books out that can explain it better than me if you ever care enough read them. Oh wait a minute…you don’t have freewill so you can’t.

So ignore the question and bring up another topic by complaining. Also note that you can’t have free will if a god created the universe and is all knowing. God is all knowing. God created this universe out of every possible universe. Since God is all knowing then god choice this universe knowing every event that would take place in it. Since god can’t be wrong, then nothing in the universe can have a result that god didn’t know and choice to happen. Since we live in this universe, then there is nothing we can do that wasn’t predetermined to happen. So we can’t have free will.

 

[Thom18]

1. You don’t waste your time in rituals that you believe are meaningless.
2. Even the law limits you from “expressing your eros” in all ways.
3. You’re telling me you have no doubts about whether you’re right, so you don’t consider the possibility of hell at all? Correction: you avoid doing what faithful people say you must do to avoid hell.
4. I’m not aware of any religion that says prayers are answered by magic. It’s not magic when I paint a stroke of red on a blank canvas, it’s not magic when God grants someone’s petition.
5. I beg to differ. Of course, I see my beliefs as rational and others as less rational. Obviously you feel the same way about yours, so you think “mental gymnastics” are required to accirsyelu represent your opposition’s petition.
6. You think the faithful don’t worry about this existence? Of course we do- we just worry about one more existence than you do.

 

[IWantGod]

So ignore the question and bring up another topic by complaining. Also note that you can’t have free will if a god created the universe and is all knowing. God is all knowing. God created this universe out of every possible universe. Since God is all knowing then god choice this universe knowing every event that would take place in it. Since god can’t be wrong, then nothing in the universe can have a result that god didn’t know and choice to happen. Since we live in this universe, then there is nothing we can do that wasn’t predetermined to happen. So we can’t have free will.

I don’t see the connection between knowing someones actions and causing somebodies actions. True, if God knows i’m going to choose x, then my choice isn’t going to be different obviously, but that doesn’t mean that i didn’t choose x. God knows that i’m going to choose x because he saw me do it and he is the being on which my choices are dependent upon for existence. The fact that i can’t change what God knows doesn’t mean that i did not make a choice.

 

[tony12356]

I don’t see the connection between knowing someones actions and causing somebodies actions. True, if God knows i’m going to choose x, then my choice isn’t going to different obviously, but that doesn’t me that i didn’t choose x. God only knows that i’m going to choose x because he saw me do it.

That wasn’t the argument. If god created everything in the universe and if god knows every result that would happen within the universe, then anything I do was known and determined long before I was born.

 

[IWantGod]

That wasn’t the argument. If god created everything in the universe and if god knew every result that would happen within the universe, then anything I do was known and determined long before I was born.

It was not determined “before”. It was known timelessly.

 

[tony12356]

It was not determined “before”. It was known timelessly.

Ok. still wouldn’t change the fact that I couldn’t have free will if god is all knowing and created the universe.