6 year old Grandson and Homosexuality

[Annn]

Labelling people “gay” and such is also a huge problem. This labelling idea should be thrown out immediately. People are people. There are some people who may struggle with temptation towards other people of the same gender, but labelling them, like, “you’re gay” is counterproductive, and in some cases of people who really are living chastely, it can be hurtful to hear labels tossed around like that.

People are people. Let’s not label them anything else, as pertains to disorders they struggle with.

Actually, many people, whether or not they are sexually active, claim the label “gay” for themselves and are happy to do so.

 

[Dtmccameron]

Huh?

No Catholics that you’ve seen see homosexual behavior as sinful while seeing homosexual orientation as not inherently sinful??

That’s the position of the RCC. Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote?

Aye, I think you more or less reversed it.

 

[erigby27]

Huh?

No Catholics that you’ve seen see homosexual behavior as sinful while seeing homosexual orientation as not inherently sinful??

That’s the position of the RCC. Perhaps I misunderstood what you wrote?

I think materiel was saying that there aren’t many Catholics on here who would say that homosexual orientation is sinful. Protestants are more likely to hold that position.

 

[erigby27]

Tolerance and acceptance isn’t a god, it’s a teaching that Jesus himself gave to all of us. Hell is for evil people, people who love to sin.

Tolerance and acceptance were teachings that Jesus gave to us? Where, pray, can I find that in the Gospel? Jesus was pretty harsh, to be honest. To be angry is to murder, to lust is to commit adultery. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. Jesus wasn’t this touchy-feely-everything-is-A-Okay-and-no-one-can-really-do-wrong guy that the secular world wants you to think he was.

Matthew 5:19 “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 7:14 “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

Jesus isn’t really saying it’s hard to go to Hell. It seems like he’s saying it’s hard to get to heaven.

Being gay isn’t a sin, for there is no 100% knowledge of it being a sin…

There isn’t? The Old Testament calls homosexual activity a sin, St. Paul calls homosexual activity a sin. The Church has, throughout her history, condemned homosexual activity as grave sin. What more do you need? If you call yourself a Catholic, you have a duty to acknowledge the authority of the Church. Sorry to be harsh, but it’s true.

 

[Matariel]

Actually, many people, whether or not they are sexually active, claim the label “gay” for themselves and are happy to do so.

That’s why I said “in cases where [people with S-SA] really are living chastely” because of obedience to the Church’s understanding of human sexuality.

 

[Matariel]

I think materiel was saying that there aren’t many Catholics on here who would say that homosexual orientation is sinful. Protestants are more likely to hold that position.

Correctomundo.

I was saying, Catholics believe that same-sex attraction is intrinsically disordered, but not sinful in itself. The actual homosexual acts are sinful, or lustful thoughts (of course, for all people sex outside of marriage is wrong and lustful thoughts are too.)

Protestants (Fundamentalist-type or Evangelical-type) tend to think that people “choose to be gay” and such, and that such things are sinful even if not engagued in. I think this is how they think, anyway. Could be off alittle.

 

[stephendcml]

Correctomundo.

I was saying, Catholics believe that same-sex attraction is intrinsically disordered, but not sinful in itself. The actual homosexual acts are sinful, or lustful thoughts (of course, for all people sex outside of marriage is wrong and lustful thoughts are too.)

Protestants (Fundamentalist-type or Evangelical-type) tend to think that people “choose to be gay” and such, and that such things are sinful even if not engagued in. I think this is how they think, anyway. Could be off alittle.

Yeah, what about a relationship, in your opinion? Two people can love eachother and never have sex, right? Sex isn’t the only way to show love.

 

[stephendcml]

Tolerance and acceptance were teachings that Jesus gave to us? Where, pray, can I find that in the Gospel? Jesus was pretty harsh, to be honest. To be angry is to murder, to lust is to commit adultery. If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. Jesus wasn’t this touchy-feely-everything-is-A-Okay-and-no-one-can-really-do-wrong guy that the secular world wants you to think he was.

Matthew 5:19 “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

Matthew 7:14 “But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

Jesus isn’t really saying it’s hard to go to Hell. It seems like he’s saying it’s hard to get to heaven.

There isn’t? The Old Testament calls homosexual activity a sin, St. Paul calls homosexual activity a sin. The Church has, throughout her history, condemned homosexual activity as grave sin. What more do you need? If you call yourself a Catholic, you have a duty to acknowledge the authority of the Church. Sorry to be harsh, but it’s true.

Well, the Old Testament doesn’t call homosexuality a sin. Leviticus was about ritual cleanliness. St.Paul, in the original text not in English, the Greek/Hebrew versions the word he used had nothing to with homosexual orientation, the word doesn;t even mean anything because it’s still unknown but could mean a male prostitute or a man who engages in anal sex.
Jesus taught love your neighbor as yourself. You fellow man, in my opinion. And when did I say Jesus said everyone is perfect? Nontheless, a homosexual orientation doesn’t make a person. Are they loving, do they kill people, do they try their best to be good, you know? And if you think that forgiveness, acceptance, and respect are not a part of love, you have some issues, not just political ones too.

 

[firstmode]

Well, the Old Testament doesn’t call homosexuality a sin. Leviticus was about ritual cleanliness. St.Paul, in the original text not in English, the Greek/Hebrew versions the word he used had nothing to with homosexual orientation, the word doesn;t even mean anything because it’s still unknown but could mean a male prostitute or a man who engages in anal sex.
Jesus taught love your neighbor as yourself. You fellow man, in my opinion. And when did I say Jesus said everyone is perfect? Nontheless, a homosexual orientation doesn’t make a person. Are they loving, do they kill people, do they try their best to be good, you know? And if you think that forgiveness, acceptance, and respect are not a part of love, you have some issues, not just political ones too.

Are you really trying to be Nit-Picky on translations of words when it comes to homosexuality in the Bible?

Ok, show me where this translation is wrong:

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

 

[firstmode]

“Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

 

[adstrinity]

Uh, not to sound alarmist or anything, but is your grandson being abused?

No 6 year old I know knows the mechanics of sex! Nor should they at 6! What lifestyle is your daughter exposing him to?

You daughter sounds very immature.

I’m sure you’ve gotten responses already, but, I asked at 5 how are babies made and my parents bought me a book to answer my question. I knew about sex at 5. I am surprised to hear my friends when they told me they didn’t know about it until later.

I dare say 6 is too late, if the child is inquiring.

Incidentally, I knew about homosexuality at 8 and bisexuality at 9.

 

[goofyjim]

“Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

The homosexual orientation by itself does not violate this and cannot be viewed as sin and is an inborn condition.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

Are you really trying to be Nit-Picky on translations of words when it comes to homosexuality in the Bible?

Ok, show me where this translation is wrong:

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

The teaching of the Church, in highlighting the above Biblical quotes, illuminating the Gospel in union with the tradition of the Old and New Testament, is as follows:

What should be noticed is that, in the presence of such remarkable diversity, there is nevertheless a clear consistency within the Scriptures themselves on the moral issue of homosexual behaviour. The Church’s doctrine regarding this issue is thus based, not on isolated phrases for facile theological argument, but on the solid foundation of a constant Biblical testimony. The community of faith today, in unbroken continuity with the Jewish and Christian communities within which the ancient Scriptures were written, continues to be nourished by those same Scriptures and by the Spirit of Truth whose Word they are. It is likewise essential to recognize that the Scriptures are not properly understood when they are interpreted in a way which contradicts the Church’s living Tradition. To be correct, the interpretation of Scripture must be in substantial accord with that Tradition.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

It isn’t just a commandment, it is our greatest good to be open to life and not use sex as a recreational activity. Teaching why one should be good is as important as teaching that one is to be good in relation to obeying the commandments. It floors me that some church people claim that homosexuality is not sinful, evidenced by the above Biblical verses and in consistent Church teaching provided in the link provided. Support for people of homosexual persuasion, not a sin in itself, is not to be confused with the support for homosexual acts, which are a sin in and of itself. It is not a kindness to tell people it is OK to do what God has said will lead them, and those leading them astray, to perdition.

 

[goofyjim]

The teaching of the Church, in highlighting the above Biblical quotes, illuminating the Gospel in union with the tradition of the Old and New Testament, is as follows:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

It isn’t just a commandment, it is our greatest good to be open to life and not use sex as a recreational activity. Teaching why one should be good is as important as teaching that one is to be good in relation to obeying the commandments. It floors me that some church people claim that homosexuality is not sinful, evidenced by the above Biblical verses and in consistent Church teaching provided in the link provided. Support for people of homosexual persuasion, not a sin in itself, is not to be confused with the support for homosexual acts, which are a sin in and of itself. It is not a kindness to tell people it is OK to do what God has said will lead them, and those leading them astray, to perdition.

It floors me t see how many insinuate that a homosexual orientation alone is against biblical or church teaching. It goes against neither and certainly in my case I was born with it. No amount of change therapy will produce any results. Yet by remaining abstinent I remain as normal as the anybody else.

 

[Newbie2]

Correctomundo.

I was saying, Catholics believe that same-sex attraction is intrinsically disordered, but not sinful in itself. The actual homosexual acts are sinful, or lustful thoughts (of course, for all people sex outside of marriage is wrong and lustful thoughts are too.)

Protestants (Fundamentalist-type or Evangelical-type) tend to think that people “choose to be gay” and such, and that such things are sinful even if not engagued in. I think this is how they think, anyway. Could be off alittle.

Okee doke. That makes more sense.

 

[promethius]

Try loving someone so deeply you couldn’t contain it and not have sex. If you could I would galdly call you a saint.

Well, mark me sainted then. Equating love with sex is a dangerous and animalistic thing. We’re HUMAN BEINGS, we’re unique in our ability to consistantly deny the urges of the flesh for the righteousness of God. If in your urges you would chastise those who have the willpower to stay on the path of the righteous, then my urge is to push you to prayer and repentance.

Or are we humans to return to nothing more than rutting animals?

 

[promethius]

It floors me t see how many insinuate that a homosexual orientation alone is against biblical or church teaching. It goes against neither and certainly in my case I was born with it. No amount of change therapy will produce any results. Yet by remaining abstinent I remain as normal as the anybody else.

My hat is off to you, Sir. See my post above. I think it is beyond ridiculous and insulting to state that any human, let alone gays, is BOUND to act out sex no matter what.

We are all tempted by our own forms of sin. We are not obliged to act on every temptation. Thank you for demonstrating that this is possible.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

It floors me t see how many insinuate that a homosexual orientation alone is against biblical or church teaching. It goes against neither and certainly in my case I was born with it. No amount of change therapy will produce any results. Yet by remaining abstinent I remain as normal as the anybody else.

We are in agreement, as evidenced by my words “Homosexual persuasion, not a sin in itself”. One is not born to be condemned. We could not be more wrong than to think that. Correlating acts with persons is what is happening though. Some propose that support of homosexual persons must include what is done, supporting the gay lifestyle and going against Church teaching. This is what I was commenting on as being wrong. Unmarried men, like me, are to be abstinent too. I relish in this sacrifice given to God. It ain’t easy though. Those, like Fr. Richard Rohr and others, who preside at “gay unions” in obvious dissent toward the Church, are leading those vulnerable to this error astray.

 

[erigby27]

Are you really trying to be Nit-Picky on translations of words when it comes to homosexuality in the Bible?

Ok, show me where this translation is wrong:

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.

Excellent firstmode! :clapping:

 

[lovemyboys]

By the way - your daughter is NOT a practicing Catholic. She is not practicing her Faith nor is she raising her son Catholic, if she is teaching him such things.

She needs to sit down with a good solid priest and talk about the damage she is doing to her son, and to her own eternal soul as well.

~Liza

I don’t think it’s anyone’s place to judge who is a practicing Catholic and who is not. Most people believe *something *that is contrary to church teaching. I also feel that no mother talks to a 6 year old as directly as was implied. I just can’t believe that any mom would talk about who can have sex with whom to a 6 year old. I can see parents saying to 6 year olds that sometimes 2 men get married or 2 women get married in order to try to explain the relationship, but I just can’t imagine the sex part being brought up. Please correct me if I’m wrong.