607 bc ?

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hi i am new to this forum and have been studying with the jehovah’s
witnesses for about 8 months. i am considering becoming an unbaptized
publisher. i was associated with the “churches of christ” for the last
10 years. i was raised as a nominal catholic but have had no contact with the catholic church for 20 years but i am a seeker of the truth. i have been studying the book of daniel with the jehovah’s witnesses and i am having difficulties with the 607bc dating of the
desolation of jerusalem. from my previous studying of daniel i
accepted that 587 bc as the date for the desolation of jerusalem was
supported by historical and archeological evidence. it seems to me
that the 607 bce dating is the very basic element in the doctrinal
structure of the jehovah’s witnesses and must have adequate evidence
to support it and to refute the evidence of historians and scholars of
christendom. does anyone know the catholic position or datings with reguard to daniel’s prophecies? and help would be appreciated…thanks
 
why are there multiple posts with the same question? not a very helpful way to get an answer, is it.
 
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puzzleannie:
why are there multiple posts with the same question? not a very helpful way to get an answer, is it.
Click to expand...
Puzzle Annie,

I would ask please for a little patience. Adversary has made two posts, and evidently you have read both of them.

Adversary,

Hello again and welcome again. You got a couple of answers over at the Other Religions forum, including one from me. Usually the same people go skipping down the forums, so you only need to ask the question in one place.
  • Liberian
 
From what I have seen around here, it sounds like Jeff Schwehm would know, you can email him at schwehmjm@lakeland.edu tell him you are asking from the Catholic forum i guess, I would if I was going to email him, perhaps that would let him know why you are emailig him.From what I have seen he knows a lot about J/W’s
 
sorry i posted the same message on two forums, i didnt realize that was inappropriate and thanks for help. i appreciate your desire to steer me away from the witnesses. i know that most of what they teach is not orthodox to what the catholic church and christianity in general teach, but i have found their teaching to be very interesting and i like their books and magazines. they have offered a lot of comfort and help with many of my problems . they are very concerned and loving, i didnt receive much help from my catholic friends, relatives, or parish priest. the churches of christ were helpful and i learned quite a bit about the bible with them. but after several years of dealing with my multiple sclerosis and frequent periods of depression, they kind of pushed me out of the nest and i found the witnesses. i truly wish and try to love jehovah god with my whole heart, mind, soul, and strenght and love my neighbor as myself. i hope he will accept me even if i dont understand or follow exactly his teachings and the gift of his only beggoten son, our lord jesus christ…ron
 
Ron,

Not to worry … and with your permission I won’t call you “Adversary” any more. It sound so … adversarial.

I’m sorry to hear that your Catholic friends and priest didn’t give you a whole lot of support. I can’t speak for anybody else here, but I’ll try to do better than that. But face-to-face contact is also important, and so I’d encourage you to give your local Catholic church another try; perhaps in a different parish. You mentioned that the Church of Christ people effectively pushed you out as well; if I may speak frankly, I think it’s probably human nature and there is no guarantee that the Jehovah’s Witnesses wouldn’t do the same thing in a few years.
  • Liberian
 
Where do they get 607 BC from?

All the books we studied at college - from scholars of catholic, protestant and non-christian traditions - would disagree with the Jehovah’s Witnesses about that date.
 
hi asteroid, that is the problem im dealing with. all secular and religious historians as well as archeology say jerusalem fell in586/587 bc, only the jehovah’s witnesses and some small adventists groups argue for 607bc. they say they follow the bible, even though a million scholars disagree. they point to jeremiah 25:11 as a proof text. they then say that in 539bc that babylon fell to cyrus the persian, all historians agree with this date, so it is a key date. cyrus allowed the jewish captives in babylon to return to judea in 537bc, so the 70 years which jeremiah predicted if added to 537bc gets you at 607bc. hope that helps…ron
 
adversary said:
hi i am new to this forum and have been studying with the jehovah’s
witnesses for about 8 months. i am considering becoming an unbaptized
publisher. i was associated with the “churches of christ” for the last
10 years. i was raised as a nominal catholic but have had no contact with the catholic church for 20 years but i am a seeker of the truth. i have been studying the book of daniel with the jehovah’s witnesses and i am having difficulties with the 607bc dating of the
desolation of jerusalem. from my previous studying of daniel i
accepted that 587 bc as the date for the desolation of jerusalem was
supported by historical and archeological evidence. it seems to me
that the 607 bce dating is the very basic element in the doctrinal
structure of the jehovah’s witnesses and must have adequate evidence
to support it and to refute the evidence of historians and scholars of
christendom. does anyone know the catholic position or datings with reguard to daniel’s prophecies? and help would be appreciated…thanks
Click to expand...
ia700301.us.archive.org/13/items/TheThreeWorlds/1877_The_Three_Worlds.pdf
This is a book published in 1877! Charles Taze Russell anticipated that Jesus Christ would be crowned as King in 1914. Note that happened 37 years before that!!! According to Rev:12: 7-12 Satan was thrown down to earth. What happened in 1914? You know better! Ist world war!
 
Daniel’s vision says the time line starts with a decree “to restore and build Jerusalem.” Some argue Cyrus and Darius only decreed the rebuilding of the Temple. (Ezra 1:2-4; 6:3-12) Building a Temple for spiritual worship is one thing. Building a city with walls for political protection is another thing. Some say the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem was actually from King Artaxerxes of Persia in about 456 bc (Ezra 7:11-26). But the rebuilding didn’t get started right away. Nehemiah recieved word from Jerusalem several years later. “The wall of Jerusalem is broken down, and its gates are destroyed by fire” (Neh 1:3). Nehemiah asked Artaxerxes to write another decree to actually get the rebuiding going about 444 bc (Neh 2:1-13).

I doubt that solves any issue for you, but it is something to consider.
 
adversary said:
hi i am new to this forum and have been studying with the jehovah’s
witnesses for about 8 months. i am considering becoming an unbaptized
publisher. i was associated with the “churches of christ” for the last
10 years. i was raised as a nominal catholic but have had no contact with the catholic church for 20 years but i am a seeker of the truth. i have been studying the book of daniel with the jehovah’s witnesses and i am having difficulties with the 607bc dating of the
desolation of jerusalem. from my previous studying of daniel i
accepted that 587 bc as the date for the desolation of jerusalem was
supported by historical and archeological evidence. it seems to me
that the 607 bce dating is the very basic element in the doctrinal
structure of the jehovah’s witnesses and must have adequate evidence
to support it and to refute the evidence of historians and scholars of
christendom. does anyone know the catholic position or datings with reguard to daniel’s prophecies? and help would be appreciated…thanks
Click to expand...
Welcome to CAF. 🙂

This earlier discussion read addresses in part the problem you are finding with the JW interpretation and should be of help to you.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=525405&highlight=Jehovah%27s+Witnesses
 
adversary said:
hi asteroid, that is the problem im dealing with. all secular and religious historians as well as archeology say jerusalem fell in586/587 bc, only the jehovah’s witnesses and some small adventists groups argue for 607bc. they say they follow the bible, even though a million scholars disagree. they point to jeremiah 25:11 as a proof text. they then say that in 539bc that babylon fell to cyrus the persian, all historians agree with this date, so it is a key date. cyrus allowed the jewish captives in babylon to return to judea in 537bc, so the 70 years which jeremiah predicted if added to 537bc gets you at 607bc. hope that helps…ron
Click to expand...
The JW’s have already more than once given dates for the end of days. Guess what they were wrong otherwise we wouldn’t be here talking to you. Believe what they say at your peril.
 
adversary said:
sorry i posted the same message on two forums, i didnt realize that was inappropriate and thanks for help. i appreciate your desire to steer me away from the witnesses. i know that most of what they teach is not orthodox to what the catholic church and christianity in general teach, but i have found their teaching to be very interesting and i like their books and magazines. they have offered a lot of comfort and help with many of my problems . they are very concerned and loving, i didnt receive much help from my catholic friends, relatives, or parish priest. the churches of christ were helpful and i learned quite a bit about the bible with them. but after several years of dealing with my multiple sclerosis and frequent periods of depression, they kind of pushed me out of the nest and i found the witnesses. i truly wish and try to love jehovah god with my whole heart, mind, soul, and strenght and love my neighbor as myself. i hope he will accept me even if i dont understand or follow exactly his teachings and the gift of his only beggoten son, our lord jesus christ…ron
Click to expand...
Yes, it’s true, the Witnesses can offer a lot of support and comfort. It’s called “love bombing” and other cultic groups often do the same. New prospects are treated with lots of attention and love. My sister said when she joined the Witnesses the first year was the happiest one of her life.

The sad part is that it doesn’t last. After a couple of years when you aren’t a new prospect you are no longer cut any slack–you must live up to their rigid standards or lose their love and support. Because, alas, their friendship is conditional. It is illusional, You must follow their teachings exactly even if they don’t make sense. As it turns out, many Witnesses are disfellowshipped and then shunned. Which happened to my sister.

But that is not Jesus’ way. Because, yes, He will accept you even if you don’t understand or are able to follow Him exactly. He will always take you back.

Of course, from my perspective, the fullness of Jesus is in the Catholic Church–even if the priests and the people are not so love bombing!

God Bless.
 
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