7 Heavens

[Sufi]

Why should I open another thread?
You are the one stating that heaven has 7 levels - on this thread.
Prove what you say from the Bible.
Do Not use the Qur’an.
Catholics do not recognise that book as inspired, true or other.

You have a point, I did mentioned it but it has nothing to do with the 7 verses I posted in the Qur’an thread so I have started this thread and I’ll proove my claim like I always do here.

1. The Bible talks about Heavens. The s signifies it’s plural form, meaning that there is more than one heaven.
2. 2 Corinthians 12:2,…caught up to the third heaven. This prooves that there are more than one heaven.
3. How do we conclude seven heavens from Bible:

· “VILON” “A Curtain”] – Retires in the Morning and comes out in the Evening – thereby renewing the work of creation daily [Isa 40:22]

· “RAKIA” “Firmament”] – Where the sun, moon, stars, and planets are fixed [Gen. 1:17]

· “SHECKAKIM” “Skies” or “Clouds”] – Where the Millstones are located that grind the Manna for the Righteous. [Psm 78:23-24] [V 23]

· “ZEBUL” “Habitation”] – Where New Jerusalem, and the Heavenly Temple in which the Altar Is located
[Compare I Kings 8:13 with Isa 63:15]

· “MAON” “Habitation”] – Where bands of ministering Angels sing a song in the night but are silent during the day for the sake of Israel [Compare Psm 42:8 with Deut 26:15]

· “MACHON” – where Snow, Hail, Whirlwinds, Storms, and the cavern of noxious Smoke; The Doors made of Fire [Compare Deut 28:12 with I Kings 8:39] [The Rabbis reasoned if good treasures exist in heaven, there must also exist a treasury of bad things]

· “ARABOTH” – Where Judgment, Righteousness, and Love, The Storehouse of Life, Peace, and Blessing; The Souls of the Righteous, the Spirits and Souls which are still to be created are located; Also located there are the dew in which HaShem will revive the Dead; “OPHANNIM” [The Wheels of Ezekiel], the Seraphim [Isa 6:2], The Holy “CHAYYOTH” [Living Creatures], The Throne of Glory, and the King abiding above them in the clouds [Psm 68:4]

Now I can show you Qur’an seven heavens verses. But you don’t believe in that. Too bad.

Take Care!

 

[wcknight]

Interesting BUT I’ve never heard of any of those. It’s not taught as such in the RCC.

 

[Sufi]

Interesting BUT I’ve never heard of any of those. It’s not taught as such in the RCC.

You cannot say you didn’t hear now. Not many people are qualified to discuss things on this level. Stick around and I’ll teach you more as time goes on and Rachel Molly doesn’t get intolerant and ban me for truth speaking.

Take care!

 

[PaulDupre]

1. The Bible talks about Heavens. The s signifies it’s plural form, meaning that there is more than one heaven.
2. 2 Corinthians 12:2,…caught up to the third heaven. This prooves that there are more than one heaven.

Sorry, Sufi, but there is a much simpler explanation than that. To the Semetic peoples of that time, there were 3 heavens:

1. The heavens where the clouds float and the birds fly.
2. The heavens beyond that, where the sun and the stars travel.
3. The heavens where God lives, which is beyond the sun, moon and stars.

So Saint Paul was saying that the man having the vision was caught up to the place where God dwells - the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with different levels of Heaven, no matter what the Muslims and the Mormons teach.

God bless you,
Paul

 

[Sufi]

Sorry, Sufi, but there is a much simpler explanation than that. To the Semetic peoples of that time, there were 3 heavens:

1. The heavens where the clouds float and the birds fly.
2. The heavens beyond that, where the sun and the stars travel.
3. The heavens where God lives, which is beyond the sun, moon and stars.

So Saint Paul was saying that the man having the vision was caught up to the place where God dwells - the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with different levels of Heaven, no matter what the Muslims and the Mormons teach.

God bless you,
Paul

Third heaven? So what’s the second and the first heaven?

 

[dosdog]

Third heaven? So what’s the second and the first heaven?

The uncertainty and confusion of the current Jewish ideas concerning paradise may explain the paucity of reference to it in the New Testament. The first mention of the word occurs in Luke, xxiii, 43, where Jesus on the cross says to the penitent thief: “Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise”. According to the prevailing interpretation of Catholic theologians and commentators, paradise in this instance is used as a synonym for the heaven of the blessed to which the thief would accompany the Saviour, together with the souls of the righteous of the Old Law who were awaiting the coming of the Redeemer. In II Corinthians (xii, 4) St. Paul describing one of his ecstasies tells his readers that he was “caught up into paradise”. Here the term seems to indicate plainly the heavenly state or abode of the blessed implying possibly a glimpse of the beatific vision. The reference cannot be to any form of terrestrial paradise, especially when we consider the parallel expression in verse 2, where relating a similar experience he says he was “caught up to the third heaven”. The third and last mention of paradise in the New Testament occurs in the Apocalypse (ii, 7), where St. John, receiving in vision a Divine message for the “angel of the church of Ephesus”, hears these words: “To him that overcometh, I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God.” In this passage the word is plainly used to designate the heavenly kingdom, though the imagery is borrowed from the description of the primeval Garden of Eden in the Book of Genesis.

 

[Damascus]

Sufi,

Very good post. I love learning about Islam. Its got so many compelling reasons to join. Hey, do Christians get 72 virgins?
BTW- I dont know if virgins are what I am looking for. How about trained professionals? In the biz? that might be better. I can see it now, wow!

So, do I get that? or can I just watch as a peeping tom all the Muslims doing the dirty deed above me?

Does Allah get to see any of this? I hope not. He might not like what I have in mind. Do I get booze too? Silken pillows?

or the flames of hell at my feet while my brain boils?

 

[Sufi]

From experiences. I must disagree with you and say Virgins are better.

There will be sweet grape juice, honey, and milk to drink.

 

[Eden]

In Jewish mysticism, Heaven is divided into seven realms. This is likely where Muhammed got the idea when he invented his new religion.

 

[Eden]

From experiences. I must disagree with you and say Virgins are better.

You mean that in the most holy and reverent way, I’m sure.

There will be sweet grape juice, honey, and milk to drink.

We won’t need anything to drink in heaven. Our thirst for God will be filled simply by being in the presence of our Lord.

Deepest Longings

The fundamental essence of heaven is union with God. The *Catechism *explains that “perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity . . . is called ‘heaven.’ Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness” (CCC 1024). It also states that “heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ” (CCC 1026).

Traditionally theology has explained the chief blessing or “beatitude” of heaven as “the beatific vision”—an insight into the wonder of God’s inner, invisible essence. “Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory ‘the beatific vision’” (CCC 1028).

**Because humans are made for having a conscious relationship with God, the beatific vision corresponds to the greatest human happiness possible.
**
Many people wonder how our relationships with others will work in heaven. Some have even wondered whether we will retain our own identities. The answer is that we will. The Christian faith assures us that those in heaven “retain, or rather find, their true identity” (CCC 1025). We do not become anonymous, interchangeable entities in heaven. Rather, we each receive our own reward (cf. 1 Cor. 3:11–15).

This does not mean that there will be no changes in our relationships. Jesus was clear in teaching that we will not be married in the next life (Matt. 22:30). But because we retain our identities, we will continue to know and love those we were close to in earthly life. Indeed, in heaven our love for them and our spiritual intimacy with them will be truer, purer, and stronger than it was in this life.

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0509bt.asp

 

[Sufi]

The uncertainty and confusion of the current Jewish ideas concerning paradise may explain the paucity of reference to it in the New Testament. The first mention of the word occurs in Luke, xxiii, 43, where Jesus on the cross says to the penitent thief: “Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise”. According to the prevailing interpretation of Catholic theologians and commentators, paradise in this instance is used as a synonym for the heaven of the blessed to which the thief would accompany the Saviour, together with the souls of the righteous of the Old Law who were awaiting the coming of the Redeemer. In II Corinthians (xii, 4) St. Paul describing one of his ecstasies tells his readers that he was “caught up into paradise”. Here the term seems to indicate plainly the heavenly state or abode of the blessed implying possibly a glimpse of the beatific vision. The reference cannot be to any form of terrestrial paradise, especially when we consider the parallel expression in verse 2, where relating a similar experience he says he was “caught up to the third heaven”. The third and last mention of paradise in the New Testament occurs in the Apocalypse (ii, 7), where St. John, receiving in vision a Divine message for the “angel of the church of Ephesus”, hears these words: “To him that overcometh, I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of my God.” In this passage the word is plainly used to designate the heavenly kingdom, though the imagery is borrowed from the description of the primeval Garden of Eden in the Book of Genesis.

And there is no old law. Matthew 5:17. Jesus(as) did not come to change law.

What is this explaining though. I didn’t get it.

 

[Sufi]

In Jewish mysticism, Heaven is divided into seven realms. This is likely where Muhammed got the idea when he invented his new religion.

Islam is not new and Muhammad’s teacher was Gabrael the angel. Not a Jew.

 

[Damascus]

From experiences. I must disagree with you and say Virgins are better.

There will be sweet grape juice, honey, and milk to drink.

How many spouses do you have to make this claim?

Or is sexual immorality a part of Sufi system?

 

[Sufi]

Eden:
You mean that in the most holy and reverent way, I’m sure.

We won’t need anything to drink in heaven. Our thirst for God will be filled simply by being in the presence of our Lord.

Deepest Longings

The fundamental essence of heaven is union with God. The *Catechism *explains that “perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity . . . is called ‘heaven.’ Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness” (CCC 1024). It also states that “heaven is the blessed community of all who are perfectly incorporated into Christ” (CCC 1026).

Traditionally theology has explained the chief blessing or “beatitude” of heaven as “the beatific vision”—an insight into the wonder of God’s inner, invisible essence. “Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory ‘the beatific vision’” (CCC 1028).

**Because humans are made for having a conscious relationship with God, the beatific vision corresponds to the greatest human happiness possible.
**
Many people wonder how our relationships with others will work in heaven. Some have even wondered whether we will retain our own identities. The answer is that we will. The Christian faith assures us that those in heaven “retain, or rather find, their true identity” (CCC 1025). We do not become anonymous, interchangeable entities in heaven. Rather, we each receive our own reward (cf. 1 Cor. 3:11–15).

This does not mean that there will be no changes in our relationships. Jesus was clear in teaching that we will not be married in the next life (Matt. 22:30). But because we retain our identities, we will continue to know and love those we were close to in earthly life. Indeed, in heaven our love for them and our spiritual intimacy with them will be truer, purer, and stronger than it was in this life.

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0509bt.asp

You guys are always sure about nothing. I never said you’ll need anything to drink. I said there will be drink.

 

[Sufi]

How many spouses do you have to make this claim?

Or is sexual immorality a part of Sufi system?

Sexulal immorality or any immorality is not apart of Islam. How many of anything I have is none of your business.

 

[Eden]

Islam is not new and Muhammad’s teacher was Gabrael the angel. Not a Jew.

It’s a giant leap to say that an angry spirit in a cave that shouted, “Recite!” while nearly suffocating Muhammed was the Angel Gabriel. Islam is an amalgamation of already-existing belief systems in Arabia in the 7th century created by a man. You have a right to believe in Muhammed’s religion. Just keep it non-violent please.

 

[Eden]

You guys are always sure about nothing. I never said you’ll need anything to drink. I said there will be drink.

I was simply using your menu of beverage choices in heaven to illustrate how deficient the Islamic understanding of the next life is in comparison to Christianity.

Regarding the 72 virgins and the beverage menu, I couldn’t help but imagine the line “Coffee, tea or me?”

You really think that’s heaven? Simply being in the presence of God isn’t good enough?

 

[Damascus]

Sexulal immorality or any immorality is not apart of Islam. How many of anything I have is none of your business.

See this! Proof right here!

“sexulal immorality or any immorality is not APART of Islam.”

So if it is not APART from it is a PART OF.

Gottcha.

 

[Damascus]

I was simply using your menu of beverage choices in heaven to illustrate how deficient the Islamic understanding of the next life is in comparison to Christianity.

Regarding the 72 virgins and the beverage menu, I couldn’t help but imagine the line “Coffee, tea or me?”

You really think that’s heaven? Simply being in the presence of God isn’t good enough?

What will they do to replace stoning for entertainment?

Blow up adulteress dolls for stoning?

 

[dosdog]

And there is no old law. Matthew 5:17. Jesus(as) did not come to change law.

What is this explaining though. I didn’t get it.

The Old Law is a preparation for the Gospel. "The Law is a pedagogy and a prophecy of things to come."17 It prophesies and presages the work of liberation from sin which will be fulfilled in Christ: it provides the New Testament with images, “types,” and symbols for expressing the life according to the Spirit. Finally, the Law is completed by the teaching of the sapiential books and the prophets which set its course toward the New Covenant and the Kingdom of heaven.

The Law of the Gospel fulfills the commandments of the Law. The Lord’s Sermon on the Mount, far from abolishing or devaluing the moral prescriptions of the Old Law, releases their hidden potential and has new demands arise from them: it reveals their entire divine and human truth. It does not add new external precepts, but proceeds to reform the heart, the root of human acts, where man chooses between the pure and the impure,where faith, hope, and charity are formed and with them the other virtues. The Gospel thus brings the Law to its fullness through imitation of the perfection of the heavenly Father, through forgiveness of enemies and prayer for persecutors, in emulation of the divine generosity.