7 sacraments versus 2

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Hi,
Just wondering if anyone out there can help me with questions I receive from my husband regarding 7 sacraments.

Why do we believe in 7 and how do we know they are sacraments? I know the definition of a sacrament, and I know why I believe in them, but I seem to have trouble explaining these ideas to my husband. This is especially true regarding the sacrament of marriage. He just does not see why we believe it is a sacrament, he does not believe it imparts grace.

Also, what is the protestant basis for only 2 sacraments? How did they pick these?

Thanks for the help and education!
 
Hi Struggle: I’ve linked to the Catholic Answers library:

catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp

Because they have tracts on each of the seven sacraments there. You’ll probably have to go through all of them (nobody said our faith is easy 😃 ) but it should give you a very good understanding of why the Church teaches that these are all sacraments. Also keep in mind that all 7 were sacraments for Christians until the reformation. IOW, the onus is not so much on Catholics to provide the evidence for 7 sacraments but for the Protestants to provide evidence as to why they **dropped ** five!
 
Struggle said:
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone out there can help me with questions I receive from my husband regarding 7 sacraments.

Why do we believe in 7 and how do we know they are sacraments? I know the definition of a sacrament, and I know why I believe in them, but I seem to have trouble explaining these ideas to my husband. This is especially true regarding the sacrament of marriage. He just does not see why we believe it is a sacrament, he does not believe it imparts grace.

Also, what is the protestant basis for only 2 sacraments? How did they pick these?

Thanks for the help and education!
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Hi,
I can only speak for my church. Just for the record I am a born-again believer who goes to a non-denom church. Ok with that said,
We believe in baptism and communion as ordinances. Ordinance means a direct order from Jesus Christ himself. Jesus gave the commandment to take this(communion) in Rememberance of me–so we do. Jesus also said to go and baptize the nations in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. So we do. The other sacrements of the CC are not ordinances from Jesus.

We do also believe in the sanctity of marriage. What we dont believe is that receiving the sacrements some how imparts grace to you. Honestly, Im not sure where the CC gets that from. Ill assume it is part of Sacred Tradition because I have never seen it in Scriptures.(Im sure someone will correct me or enlighten me:D )
Althoug we do need grace to stay married:eek: 😉

I hope other protestants come forward to say their beliefs. I wouldnt be surprised if it was similar or the same.

I hope this helps:D Is your husband catholic?
 
Struggle said:
Hi,
Just wondering if anyone out there can help me with questions I receive from my husband regarding 7 sacraments.

Why do we believe in 7 and how do we know they are sacraments? I know the definition of a sacrament, and I know why I believe in them, but I seem to have trouble explaining these ideas to my husband. This is especially true regarding the sacrament of marriage. He just does not see why we believe it is a sacrament, he does not believe it imparts grace.

Also, what is the protestant basis for only 2 sacraments? How did they pick these?

Thanks for the help and education!
Click to expand...
Well since the Protestants were “Protesting” the Catholic faith. They very well could not have the same Sacraments! Either they needed to eliminate some or add some. We believe that there are seven because the Church which has the power to bind and loose and speak for Christ defined them as such and determined their number to be seven.
 
Hi Allforhim,

The grace of marriage is not what we call “sanctifying grace”, the grace that we receive at baptism and that makes us heirs to heaven and adopted children of God. It is simply the grace of marriage, God’s continuous help to make a sucess of it. I suggest you read the pages of the Catechism mentionned in the previous post.

Verbum
 
Thanks, I read the links you provided. So, how do we know when grace is given?
 
For baptism, we know the grace is given when we receive valid baptism (trinitarian formula, sprinkle/immersion/pouring). If we are infants, this grace is sought for us. If we are over the age of reason, we have to freely agree to and accept the grace for ourselves.

For the other sacraments, the same things. . .valid sacrament (meaning valid matter and intent) along with being in a state of grace for the sacrament with the exception that we can go in to reconciliation without grace. We can get that state of grace replenished or restored in reconciliation, and it is totally necessary to go to reconciliation if we are in mortal sin in order to remove the stain of mortal sin and once again receive grace.

When we receive the Eucharist, if we are in venial sin only, that sin is remitted with the penitential rite at the start of Mass. Again we need valid matter and intent along with free agreement and acceptance of grace.

Etc. etc.
 
Hi Struggle,

Thanks, I read the links you provided. So, how do we know when grace is given?

Sacraments give grace ex opere operato (effective from the action itself). You receive the grace when you receive the sacrament. Its ultimate effectiveneness depends on your disposition and love of God.

Robert
 
The reason we know they impart grace is because a sacrament is an encounter with Christ - since He instituted the sacraments.

Just as Jesus cured the blind man by using dirt and spittle and then the man had to wash his eyes with water - that was a sacrament - the man received the healing grace of Christ, Christ used everyday things - dirt, spit, and water. That’s the same for all the sacrments.

We are human and so was Jesus when He was with us. He used the mundane to impart the grace. He used things we could relate to. He used water, oils, bread, wine… Everytime Jesus “encountered” someone in his way, He always forgave their sins, He cleansed them, He saved them by imparting His sanctifying grace!

Imagine the Apostles being with Jesus everyday - everyday was a sacrament!
 
There is also 7 lampstands listed in the book of revelation. Lampstands illuminate.
 
Please read the following Bible verses for all 7 Sacraments:

Baptism: Mt.28:19, Mk 16:16, Jn 3:5, Acts 2:38

Confirmation: Wis 9:17, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 13:3, Acts 19:1-6,
2 Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13, Heb 6:1-2

Eucharist: Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, Lk 22:19-20, Jn 6:47-66,
1 Cor 10:16, 1 Cor 11:23-30

Confession: Ex 32:20, Lv 19:20-22, Nm 5:6-7, Nm 14:19-23,
Nm 17:11-13, Mt 16:19, Mt 18:18, Lk 15:18-19,
Jn 20:23, Acts 19:18, 1 Cor 5:3-5, 2 Cor 2:6-11,
2 Cor 5:18-20, Jas 5:16, 1 Jn1:8-9

Anointing of the Sick: Mk 6:5, 12-13, Lk 13:13, Acts 9:17-18,
1 Cor 12:9, 30, Jas 5:14-15

Holy Orders: Mt 18:18, Lk 10:16, Lk 22:19, Lk 24:47, Jn 13:20,
Jn 15:5, Acts 6:6, Acts 15:2-6, 1Tim 3:1-7, 1Tim 4:14, Ti 1:5-9,
1 Pt 5:1

**Matrimony: **Gn 1:26-31, Gn 2:18-25,Mt 5:31-32, Mt 19:1-9,
Mk 10:2-12, Lk 16:18, Rom 7:2-3, 1 Cor 7:1-24,
1 Cor 7:39, Eph 5:2, 21,33, Heb 13:4,1 Pt 3:1-9

How many more evidence do we need?
 
Martin Luther, that great seeker of truth, felt that only two sacraments were necessary, Baptism and Eucharist. Nothing else mattered, because in his eyes, man was hopelessly doomed anyway and only through faith and faith alone could man be saved. The sacraments were meaningless to him as man made inventions that could do nothing at all. Man could not aid in his salvation, as it was completely and totally a free gift from God. .
 
palmas85 said:
Martin Luther, … Nothing else mattered, because in his eyes, man was hopelessly doomed anyway and only through faith and faith alone could man be saved.
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Right, ‘because in his eyes’, he cannot see everything.
I am trying not to go off topic, but here are the reasons why faith alone cannot save you.

James 2: 17 Faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2: 18 Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will domonstrate my faith to you from my works.
James 2:19 you believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble

Rom 2: 5: By your stubornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
We do also believe in the sanctity of marriage. What we dont believe is that receiving the sacrements some how imparts grace to you. Honestly, Im not sure where the CC gets that from. Ill assume it is part of Sacred Tradition because I have never seen it in Scriptures.(Im sure someone will correct me or enlighten me:D )
Althoug we do need grace to stay married:eek: 😉
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I’m sure you’ve seen some of the reasoning in the Bible, you just haven’t read it in the way Catholics do. We tend to take Christ at His word. So, for instance, with confession, he told the Apostles “Whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven them.” We actually believe he meant what he said. Of course, this demands that sacraments be efficacious, not just symbols we do because God told us to. I haven’t looked through the list of scriptural references above, but I’m sure you’ll find many that imply sacraments actually doing something, i.e. conferring grace in one manner or another. Just as with the number of sacraments, the burden of proof is on those who reject the notion that sacraments don’t cause any spiritual effect. Rejection of a sacramental worldview was a great novelty of the Reformation.
 
InLight247 said:
**Please read **the following Bible verses for all 7 Sacraments:

Baptism: Mt.28:19, Mk 16:16, Jn 3:5, Acts 2:38

Confirmation: Wis 9:17, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 13:3, Acts 19:1-6,
2 Cor 1:21-22, Eph 1:13, Heb 6:1-2

Eucharist: Mt 26:26-28, Mk 14:22-24, Lk 22:19-20, Jn 6:47-66,
1 Cor 10:16, 1 Cor 11:23-30

Confession: Ex 32:20, Lv 19:20-22, Nm 5:6-7, Nm 14:19-23,
Nm 17:11-13, Mt 16:19, Mt 18:18, Lk 15:18-19,
Jn 20:23, Acts 19:18, 1 Cor 5:3-5, 2 Cor 2:6-11,
2 Cor 5:18-20, Jas 5:16, 1 Jn1:8-9

Anointing of the Sick: Mk 6:5, 12-13, Lk 13:13, Acts 9:17-18,
1 Cor 12:9, 30, Jas 5:14-15

Holy Orders: Mt 18:18, Lk 10:16, Lk 22:19, Lk 24:47, Jn 13:20,
Jn 15:5, Acts 6:6, Acts 15:2-6, 1Tim 3:1-7, 1Tim 4:14, Ti 1:5-9,
1 Pt 5:1

**Matrimony: **Gn 1:26-31, Gn 2:18-25,Mt 5:31-32, Mt 19:1-9,
Mk 10:2-12, Lk 16:18, Rom 7:2-3, 1 Cor 7:1-24,
1 Cor 7:39, Eph 5:2, 21,33, Heb 13:4,1 Pt 3:1-9

How many more evidence do we need?
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Hi,
I was wondering if those Scriptures you posted are the ones used by the Vatican to prove the CC’s teaching. Do you believe that the 7 sacrements impart some sort of Grace when you partake of the Sacrement?
 
the burden of proof is on those who reject the notion that sacraments don’t cause any spiritual effect. Rejection of a sacramental worldview was a great novelty of the Reformation.
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Actually the burden of proof is on the CC because they are the one’s who claim it. The CC claims that we receive grace when we partake of the Sacrements. Not one of those Scripture mentioned anything about receiving Grace if I follow them. I read them all.😉
 
Actually the burden of proof is on the CC because they are the one’s who claim it. The CC claims that we receive grace when we partake of the Sacrements. Not one of those Scripture mentioned anything about receiving Grace if I follow them. I read them all.😉

So sins can be forgiven apart from the operation of grace?
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
Actually the burden of proof is on the CC because they are the one’s who claim it. The CC claims that we receive grace when we partake of the Sacrements. Not one of those Scripture mentioned anything about receiving Grace if I follow them. I read them all.😉
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So sins can be forgiven apart from the operation of grace?

Ephesians 2 sums that up.👍 The whole chapter.
 
Actually the burden of proof is on the CC because they are the one’s who claim it. The CC claims that we receive grace when we partake of the Sacrements. Not one of those Scripture mentioned anything about receiving Grace if I follow them. I read them all.😉
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The Bible verses I quoted are from the notes in my Catholic Bible. While they are not literally mentioning any word of “grace”, these verses showed us the Bible basis of the 7 Sacraments.

Do you agree baptism brings grace?
Yet the Bible did not actaully say that “baptism will bring grace”. Can you then deny the grace from baptism? Same way applies to other Sacraments.

Have you ever experienced the grace from the Sacrament of Reconciliation? Can you deny that grace just beacuse there is no actual word of “grace” in the Bible where it talks about forgiveness of sins? The answer should be obvious.
 
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